figured you were. I guess the thing I was wondering most was....why so
quick to jump on the offensive? i re-read this thread to see where I may
have semantically gone wrong, and can't see it. I merely challenged the
statement that ohms law cures all, based on MANY first hand experiences..
then we whip out the "you have no clue" flag on me, /assuming/ I'm a newbie.
then it comes to a personal attack based on "you think you're in the
industry?" when I try to tell you i'm not a newbie.
all of this without knowing a darned thing about me or my business. kinda
made me wonder....thoughts?
I can see that there is no reasoning with an unreasonable person. I guess
you should give an ohms law lesson to blazerchic as well. seems that she
solved the problem the same way that I proposed.
its clear you're not open to the idea that ohms law doesn't explain
look down a few posts brother - you'll see an example given by me dated
12/3/2004 at 10:21 pm.
I make the claim of seeing current increase with bad connections in car
audio EVERY DAY. its
I guess you're adverse to hearing examples of things that cannot be
explained by your friend ohms law. Its it
too much to bear that yet another person on here has had the SAME
experience? I can recount numerous examples
of shitty grounds causing dead batteries.....
how come you never seem to address the point - but rather keep leaning on
formulas that nobody gives a crap about?
the point is this - when all else fails in a circuit, and something isn't
working right, CHECK THE GROUNDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
that was the original statement I made, and I stand by it. as backed up
verbally by at least one other poster here,
and probably hundreds who don't want you to jump on them.
ever been to a doctor? health SCIENCES are pretty neat eh? but there are
plenty o' things that they simply cannot explain.
oh, but its a science. it MUST be explainable....you need to open ur mind a
bit man. put down the physics book and
open your mind....not everything falls within the realm of "explainable by
theories/laws of physics". whether you like it or not.
still with me?
there we go with "by definition". the end result, "bucko", is that a shitty
connection can lead to dead batteries.
I see it with my own two eyes, therefore it must be true. testing
"properly" or not, the end result is the same, is
it not? is that not the original point of the first post???????
condition - battery keeps going dead on its own (there is a draw on the
solution - cleaning up and repairing a bad ground removed the draw, and the
battery no longer goes dead on its own
reason - bad connection caused "something", which lead to a draw, which lead
to a dead battery
do I have to spell it out to you any clearer? bad connections can lead to
DEAD BATTERIES. others have confimred it
here (or do you just read what you want to read?) 10 years of personal
experience shows it to me over and over.
any reasonable person can conclude then. if the battery was going dead, and
a connection was repaired (with no other changes
made), and immediately the dead-battery condition is repaired, the
connection must be at fault.
once again you dodge the original point and lean on ohms law. explains
nothing my friend. you still have not answered
with your friend, ohms law, why repairing a sending unit ground fixed a
small current draw on the battery at rest.
that is, perhaps ur theories aren't always correct?
ps...look a little closer. my post is there for everyone to see.
On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 02:28:32 GMT, "Hamilton Audio"
I really hate to get into the middle of these love fests, but a bad
connection prevents the alternator from charging the battery, by not
allowing the current through it, and the regular electrical load on
the battery is what discharges it.
Continue if you wish. I am wrong. I genuinely thought I was posting on a
different group which I visit & was discussing AC motor circuits.
Obviously DC motors simply slow down with a voltage drop. Not the same
with AC systems.
its actually pretty easy bud. as voltage x current = power so, in a
product like a car audio amplifier, power ratings
are often at a fixed voltage of say 12.6 volts (resting battery voltage).
If this amp physically makes 100 watts of power with
an input of 10 amps at 12.6 volts, start dropping the voltage and watch what
As the voltage dips, the current drawn INCREASES in an attempt to compensate
and maintain the same level of power. There
will come a point where either the amps protection circuit kicks in, or the
power supply fails, and then current falls to zero.
Oh, and I believe that a few posts down yet another person has discovered
how a grungy ground can cause excess current
draw and, oops, drain a battery. I come back to my original point. Ohms
law is a great thing, and if all conditions are perfect,
it answers ALL questions. But in the automotive world - moisture,
vibration, rust, heat, cold and a myriad of other factors play
into things, making Ohms LAW a RULE at best in some cases. It doesn't
always make sense.....and thats not an "upstart newbie
talking", thats an MECP certfied 12V installer with 10 years industry
so why ya callin me "champ" anyway? I sense a somewhat defensive stance?
not sure why....
hey my husband had the same problem on his 1990 fullsize blazer and he did
the samething you did. we found that the ground wire in the lighting
system wasnt grinded right so it drained the battery all the time.
You seem relatively new. I would suggest changing your reply-too email
address w/ some spam preventatives, as well as finding the feature to quote
the message you are responding too.
great points gremlin. reminded me that my account was also setup as
non-spam fighting. blazerchic - setup in your
newsreader your email address with a few extra characters that make it
false....then the bots won't getcha! ;)
Some things defy rational debate. Religion, politics and now Ohm's Law. :-)
Someone makes an observation about poor grounds and/or connections. Then a
conclusion that 12 volt DC circuits don't necessarily follow Ohm's Law.
When that conclusion isn't acceptable to others, the validity of the
observation itself is questioned. Then other's add their experiences of
One group is saying "I've seen it, therefore its true."
The other is saying "I've never seen it, therefore its false."
Well, "I've seen it before, the observation is true, but the conclusion is
false." So there!
It might have been more accurate to conclude that today's automotive wiring
systems appear to defy Ohm's Law.
Other voltages in both DC and AC are often used and the wiring diagrams
available to the backyard mechanic are poor at best.
To illustrate the possibilities, here's the horror story of my wife's Buick.
After a lengthy highway trip with a full car, I parked in the garage, turned
off the ignition, removed the cell phone adapter from the cigarette lighter
and tried to replace the lighter. It didn't go in properly until I removed a
piece of the adapter from the socket. The interior lights have a delayed off
feature (as do the headlights) so it was normal for lights to remain on when
I left the vehicle.
On leaving 20 minutes later for a short trip, the interior lights were still
on which I assumed was due to someone leaving on a light switch during the
recent trip. However, there wasn't any power to the dash. No lights, no
heater, no radio and no cigarette lighter power. Everything else was fine so
off I go. Within an hour and a half after the next stop the battery was
dead. A boost got me home and the fun began.
With Ohm's Law more or less the guiding principal, I started
troubleshooting. The problem initially started with the end of the cell
adapter shorting the cigarette lighter. But none of the fuses labeled, dash,
interior, heater, lights, radio etc. were blown. And the only way of turning
off the interior lights was to remove the fuse for them. Anyway how could a
blown fuse turn an interior light on? I suspected the short heated a wire,
melted the insulation, etc. etc.
I eventually had the dash stripped to the firewall tracing the orange power
wire that feeds the cigarette lighter, the radio, the heater/AC control
module and found nothing. No shorts, no breaks, and no power. It was clearly
time to give up and send this mess to the wreckers. (We're talking 100 +
manhours now.) So for the hell of it, I took a wire from the battery and
touched the center of the lighter socket. The interior lights went out. ????
There turned out to be only one problem. A fuse had blown but was labeled as
something else and consequently missed at the start. Being quite annoyed
with mysellf, I quickly slapped it back together without invetigating the
exact reason for the apparent illogical behavior - namely blown fuse discharged battery.
My conclusion does not dispute Ohm's Law, nor does it question the validity
of my observations. So what might have happened?
The interior lights are on with the doors open and for a delayed period
after they are closed. The power to these lights is fed through a relay. The
cicuits controlling that relay, including a time delay may be a little
convoluted. Consider that the coil is de energized when the potential across
it is zero. That can be grnd on both sides OR 12 volts on both sides.
Now consider power fed to both sides of a relay coil and a resistor to
ground at each side. Grounding either side energizes the relay. Similarly
removing the 12 volts from either side energizes the relay. I think this was
my situation with a missing voltage on one side due to the blown fuse. (Note
to purists: Yes the polarity matters. But diodes, duplicate coils/relays
could provide the stated effect)
So can a bad ground, poor connection or blown fuse discharge a battery?
Does that contravene Ohm's Law? No.
Now I really doubt that this type of circuit was unique to the 1994 LeSabre
interior? How about delayed off headlights? Seatbelt warnings? etc. etc.
We're all correct. Let's play nice.
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