Most Big Suv/Truck owners deserve what they're they're paying at the gas pump

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What conjecture?
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how about you stop cross-posting to groups that don't give a flying crap about your subject !
no real need for you to cross-post another reply... <plonk>
--
'Key
=====



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cross-posted, off-topic in message

Oh, the irony.......
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Sorry Sal, you want real world? Here it is. I spent 18 years working the dirty end of an ambulance. In my REAL WORLD experience bigger and heaver wins almost EVERY time. Say what you THINK, I KNOW what I SAW. Regards, JR
wrote:

Yukon could roll over possibly causing paralysis or death.
Yukons also have an EXTREMELY HIGH death rate of 92 per million registered vehicle years. Even small cars like the Mini Cooper and Honda Civic are FAR safer than a Yukon. What SUV owners don't understand is it's NOT important how your vehicle does in a crash, it's important how the driver/passengers do in a crash. A Safe Car like a Honda Accord or Volvo S80 may be totaled in a crash, but the driver may walk away without a scratch. A Yukon or Excursion may only have moderate damage in a crash, but the driver/ passengers may have life threatening injuries. The Ford Excursion has an EXTREMELY high 115 deaths per million registered vehicle years. TINY cars such as the Toyota Echo, Volkswagen Golf, Saturn Ion, Nissan Sentra, Volkswagen Jetta, Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, Volvo S40, Kia Spectra, and Hyundai Elantra are FAR FAR safer than an Excursion. All those cars except the Kia Spectra and Hyundai Elantra are FAR FAR safer than a Yukon. So much for stupid theories that Big SUVs are safer, REAL WORLD ACCIDENTS DISPROVE stupid theories from SUV owners. http://www.iihs.org/sr/pdfs/sr4204.pdf
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I never said small cars are safer, I said out of all the vehicle segments, Midsize Luxury cars are the safest vehicles overall. I was just saying that some SUVs are so dangerous that even small cars are safer than them. The fact that The Hummer H2 and the Ford Excursion have MUCH MUCH higher death and injury rates than the safest cars just goes to show you that Size alone doesn't buy you safety. When an 18 wheeler is about to t-bone you, it's much better to be in a 2008 V6 Accord or a 2008 V8 Volvo S80 than in an Excursion or Hummer H2. at least the cars accelerate themselves out of trouble while the SUVs can't. Answer me this, HOW many SUVs have 25 out of 25 stars in the 5 NHTSA crash tests? The answer is 0. There are many cars that get 5 stars in all 5 categories, but NO SUVS EVER DO. Here's just one of the dozens of cars that got 25 out of 25 stars in the crash tests. http://tinyurl.com/2wawr8 Can any of the so called SAFE SUV owners even find ONE SUV that has 25 out of 25 stars in the NHTSA crash test ratings?
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The statistics you are using take no account of driver skill or miles driven. Midsize luxury cars are primarily owned by richer, older drivers, who on average, are likely to be much safer drivers. Even with this disparity, SUVs and Luxury cars have very similar injury loss histories (see http://www.iihs.org/research/hldi/fact_sheets/personal_injury_coverage_04to06.pdf and http://www.iihs.org/research/hldi/fact_sheets/med_payment_coverage_04to06.pdf ) .

This is not a true statement.
Injury loss rating for the 2003-2005 Ford Excursion is 74, well below average for all vehicles. The injury loss rating for the 2003-2005 H2 Hummer is 61. These ratings are better than the majority of cars (small, medium, large, luxury, etc.). There are cars with better ratings, but most are worse and many are far worse. The very safest car in the 2003-2005 injury loss ratings is the Audi Allroad Quattro wagon 4WD with a 45 injury loss rating. Admittedly this is much better than the Excursion, but it is also much better than the following cars (model / injury loss rating):
Cadillac STS 4dr 2WD/4WD 74 Mercedes E class 4dr 76 Volvo S80 4dr 76 105 Lexus GS series 4dr 79 Lincoln LS 4dr 79 BMW 5 series 4dr 84 Cadillac CTS 4dr 98 Infiniti G35 4dr 4WD 72 BMW 3 series conv 72 BMW 3 series 4dr 4WD 75 Saab 9-3 conv 77 Acura TL series 4dr 77 Lexus ES series 4dr 80 Mercedes CLK class 2dr 80 Mercedes CLK class conv 81 Infiniti G35 2dr 86 Infiniti G35 4dr 88 Volvo S60 4dr 88 Mercedes C class 4dr 4WD 90 BMW 3 series 2dr 91 Volvo S60 4dr 4WD 91 BMW M3 2dr 95 BMW 3 series 4dr 99 Jaguar X-Type 4dr 4WD 104 Mercedes C class 2dr 108 Mercedes C class 4dr 114 Lexus IS 300 4dr 123
How does this fit in with your claim that Large SUVs are more dangerous than luxury cars?

So I should get a Mustang 500KR? Just how often do you think this sort of scenario happens?
2007 Volvo S80: 0-60 8.6 Sec 2007 Chevrolet Tahoe: 0-60 9.0 sec 2007 Expedition LE: 0-60 9.1 Sec (they no longer sell Excursions, the EL Expedition is the replacement) 2008 Accord V-6: 0-60 7.4 2008 Accord I-4: 0-60 9.8
So using your theory, the V6 accord is the safest vehicle in this list and the I-4 Accord is the least safe? Do you really think if an 18 wheeler is bearing down on you the difference in acceleration between the Volvo and Tahoe will determine whether or not you get out of the way? I could make the argument that the higher driving position of the SUV gives you a better chance of seeing the 18 wheeler coming, giving you a lot more time to get out of the way.

There are not five NHTSA "CRASH" tests. It is bad enough when you cherry pick statistics, but now you are just making them up out of thin air. There are four crash tests (Front Driver, Front Passenger, Side Driver, Side Rear Passenger). There is also a rollover rating, but this is most definitely is not a CRASH test. There are many SUVs that get five stars in the four crash tests. There are no SUVs that get five stars in the rollover rating, but this is to be expected. All things being equal, taller vehicles will rollover sooner than lower vehicles - simple physics. Despite this, there are many SUVs with four star rollover ratings and actually the majority of cars also have four star rollover ratings (see http://www.safercar.gov/portal/site/safercar/ and look for yourself).

Define "many." The majority of cars don't get five stars in the four crash test and in the rollover rating. So although there are no SUVs with 5 stars in all the NHTSA rating categories, there are not that many cars that do so either. In fact out of 243 2008 passenger cars listed in the NHTSA database there are only two 2008 passenger cars that get five five star ratings:
2008 Acura RL 4-DR. w/SAB 2008 Lincoln Town Car 4-DR. w/SAB

I looked at 2008 Models, and there were only the two I mentioned above.

Your link does not work. It takes me to the same NHTSA site (safercar.org, but says "Sorry, this feature is currently unavailable"). Perhaps you were sending me to the comparison chart that shows that most cars only get four stars in the rollover rating?

No vehicle has 25 out of 25 stars in NHTSA "CRASH" test ratings, since there are only four "CRASH" test ratings. Many SUVs have 24 out of 25 stars in the four crash test ratings plus the rollover rating. Most cars don't have as many as 24 out of 25 stars in these ratings.
It is fine with me that you don't like SUVs. Many people don't. Don't buy one. But you should miss state facts in an effort to paint a false picture. Whether you like it or not, your chances of being injured in an average SUV or less than your chances of being injured in an average car (by average, I don't mean an average Porsche, Lexus, or Mercedes).
Ed
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Sal:

1) If you can't take a little light in your eyes, you shouldn't be on the road.
2) If you cannot drive around in a parking lot without hitting an SUV, then you should be driving PERIOD!
3) If you can't see, buy an SUV. They usually sit higher, and thus you will be able to view the road better avoiding hazards.
4) Trucks and SUVs are safer. Where in the world are you getting your information from? And also everytime I turn around, it's us SUV drivers that have to pull a VW or some other little toy car out of our butt because they can see what is going on and then, by extenstion, grow impatient and can't wait 2 seconds or they feel you have to weave in and out of traffic like a moron.
5) I would gladly pay a little more (at the pump and off the lot) and put any one of my loved ones in an SUV because of all the dumb @$$ drivers that shouldn't be on the road to begin with, to keep my friends and family safe.
6) The "people" that bought these trucks to "look cool" that you are speaking of... all have money. They don't care about how much they drop at the pump, just as long as their lifestyle doesn't change.
7) You speak of towing a boat -- BOATS CONSUME MORE GASOLINE FASTER AND ARE LESS EFFICIENT. - Start yelling at Yacht and speed boat owners if you want to yell about gas consumption and the conservation thereof.
8) The hard working people that do use their cars and/or trucks for work get screwed in the end. The reimbursement for mileage is a joke. You have to figure, that reimbursement needs to cover - NOT ONLY GAS but oil changes, regular maintenance, parts, ware & tear and depreciation of the vehicle. (Also, if you cannot do your own work, now you have to factor in Labor and Service costs)
9) If want to piss and moan! --- Go yell at the people who talk on the phone, fix their hair and makup and/or read the newspaper all while driving 15MPH in the passing lane or 90MPH almost killing someone. OR The rubbernecking morons that have to stop or slow to 1 to 2 MPH because they think they are entitled to a front row seat to someone else's misery. --- I know, how does this effect the topic of this conversation? Well, these people bring traffic to screeching halt. -- Decreasing the life span of your breaks as you start rolling and then stop again. Oh yeah, also, it consumes a lot more gasoline while idling, stopping then starting again. (Also known as "City Driving")
FINNALY) The illogical jump that you make in your final sentence of your comment... Is exactly that, ILLOGICAL! If there were no SUVs one the road... and that was a needed resource... who would you blame then? -- You show anything but emotion without forethought or reasoning and I don't think you see the big picture. Aside from "those big bad SUV owners", how do the planes you fly get off the ground? How do the trains that transport the goods throughout the country get from one coast to the other? How do the ships that export and import the goods you produce and use run? And just possibly, what is used to power the electricity in your home? Oil? (It may be)
I try and keep myself politically neutral from the world. I neither agree nor disagree with the actions or statements that political entities make. I do not wish to see anyone killed or suffer. I say what I say because it is always easy to point a finger. Few people actually take the time to see more than one or two points of view. I do not claim to know everything but then again, I am not stupid either. If you look at these situations logically, there is no one easy fix. A untrusting world has dependantcies on other contries it doesn't wish to or can't rely on. These issues are somewhat out of my hands.
It would be in my best interest if I could take care of ways to make my SUV, house, life, etc. more efficent so that I use less gas, I don't complain about the gas prices, I just try and find ways to make my tank last a little longer.
[You know, I started out writing this aggrivated but I have since calm down. Please try and think things through before your emotions lash out at innocent people. -- I will try to also heed my own counsel]
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On sun, 14 sep 2008 11:01:48 -0400, Enforcer wrote:

I don't see the original post, so must be posting from the abuse-ridden google.
If people are too stupid or unqualified to drive that a big SUV causes them to have a accident then they shouldn't be on the road.
I have a '99 Suburban with only about 56,000 miles on it because I only use it when I need to haul things or people. When I need the hauling capacity I need it. Otherwise I rarely drive it.
If you really think we are in Iraq because of SUV's you are a total moron. Terrorism is a real threat to world peace. Saddam was a terrorist who intended to dominate the world. He defied UN resolutions and there was ample evidence of WMD being built. If the UN wasn't so stupid in telling Saddam when and where they were going to inspect days in advance, the UN inspectors would have had "smoking guns." Saddam intended to use these weapons on his neighbors. He openly stated his intentions. So is Iran. If need be, we have full right to destroy their nuclear programs. Unfortunately, we let them go so long that they are no longer accessible. We waited too long. Now, the only way to stop Iran is with a nuclear attack on the their assembly plants, which are covered with way too much reinforced concrete to penetrate with anything but a nuclear bomb.
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Easy Mike, this is an old old thread. And nukes won't be necessary to get to Iran's nuke facilities. My company makes the penetrator nose cones for the bunker busters. Those things will penetrate 20 ft of reinforced concrete. We just sold 1000 of them to Israel. Pending congressional approval of course. Regards JR
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On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:16:03 -0400, JR wrote:

As I recall, even Israel is concerned about how think the concrete is and not being able to penetrate with conventional weapons.
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That's true. That's why they ordered so many. Just keep dropping them on the same hole. How deep do you want to go, Boys? Regards, JR
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