Quality is important

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Here is a letter I sent today to my dealer and to Chevrolet. Does anybody think they care?
Letter to:
Vice President of Service Criswell Chevrolet 503 Quince Orchard Rd.
Gaithersburg, MD 20878
Vice President of Service General Motors- Chevrolet Division 300 Renaissance Center PO 300 Detroit, MI 48265-3000
Gentlemen:
A customer's attitude about quality is something that once lost is rarely re-established.
300 miles after a 12,000 mile service on my 2003 Silverado I found the oil refill cap missing. What damage was done I, nor you have any idea? The mechanic that replaced the cap on Saturday told me the engine runs with 2 lbs. of positive crankcase pressure. I have no idea if he told me the truth. I suspect it is the other way around. Please advise.
Criswell quickly replace the cap, but they DID NOT CHANGE THE OIL. With only 300 miles on the oil I can understand a thrifty attitude, you are not leaving me with a satisfied attitude. I paid someone else to change the oil in the event something got into my engine.
What hurts most is that I do not have confidence that the engine will now see its service life.
Criswell uses a 27-point vehicle inspection. Item 13 refers to Engine and Transmission oil leaks. Considering what happened do you for a minute I think any of the 26 other items were performed.
Sincerely
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I know that this is not a specific newsgroup for diesel questions BUT where do I go? My son recently bought a used (97) diesel Chevy Silverado. When we looked at it (and had a mechanic look at it), everything seemed fine. All of a sudden the engine stops. Diagnostic lights came on that said "check Battery". We fixed a connector that showed a little corrosion...it stopped again. Now, we are replacing the battery. Question 1: are we barking up the wrong tree? does this problem seem fuel related or electrical related? Question 2: If you don't want me on this newsgroup, is there a suggestion as to where to look? John
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Diesel question(s) Group: alt.autos.4x4.chevy-trucks Date: Sun, Oct 12, 2003, 3:45pm From: snipped-for-privacy@compassnet.com (JohnFregia) I know that this is not a specific newsgroup for diesel questions BUT where do I go? My son recently bought a used (97) diesel Chevy Silverado. When we looked at it (and had a mechanic look at it), everything seemed fine. All of a sudden the engine stops. Diagnostic lights came on that said "check Battery". We fixed a connector that showed a little corrosion...it stopped again. Now, we are replacing the battery. Question 1: are we barking up the wrong tree? does this problem seem fuel related or electrical related? Question 2: If you don't want me on this newsgroup, is there a suggestion as to where to look? John
Ok John... I have some questions for you. 1.Does the engine turn over? 2.Does your battery have voltage? 3.When you checked the battery connections. Did you check you check just the terminals? Or did you also check the batter connections at alternator,starter,also where its grounded? 4.If it does start . Do you have voltage to your battery from you alternator? 5.If its yes to all of the above. Do you have fuel pressure? See you need more information. Just that it started ,stopped,and you replaced a terminal isnt enough. Give more info and we might be able to help. Steve C
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Top post..... Everyone I seen the you check you check mistake. And im very sorry. I will put the beer down. John more facts bud Steve C Re: Diesel question(s) Group: alt.autos.4x4.chevy-trucks Date: Sun, Oct 12, 2003, 6:54pm From: The_Gear snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (SteveCook) Diesel question(s) Group: alt.autos.4x4.chevy-trucks Date: Sun, Oct 12, 2003, 3:45pm From: snipped-for-privacy@compassnet.com (JohnFregia) I know that this is not a specific newsgroup for diesel questions BUT where do I go? My son recently bought a used (97) diesel Chevy Silverado. When we looked at it (and had a mechanic look at it), everything seemed fine. All of a sudden the engine stops. Diagnostic lights came on that said "check Battery". We fixed a connector that showed a little corrosion...it stopped again. Now, we are replacing the battery. Question 1: are we barking up the wrong tree? does this problem seem fuel related or electrical related? Question 2: If you don't want me on this newsgroup, is there a suggestion as to where to look? John Ok John... I have some questions for you. 1.Does the engine turn over? 2.Does your battery have voltage? 3.When you checked the battery connections. Did you check you check just the terminals? Or did you also check the batter connections at alternator,starter,also where its grounded? 4.If it does start . Do you have voltage to your battery from you alternator? 5.If its yes to all of the above. Do you have fuel pressure? See you need more information. Just that it started ,stopped,and you replaced a terminal isnt enough. Give more info and we might be able to help. Steve C
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Thanks, Steve 1. Engine does turn over. Sometimes it will start and run fine...no problems. Sometimes it runs for a few blocks, dies, restarts and has no more problems that day. Last week it ran for a few blocks, died and could not be restarted. When we reworked the battery cable (put on a new connector) it restarted, ran for 5 minutes at idle, died, restarted and made it the rest of the way home with no problem. 2. Batt has about 14v...didn't have a digital voltmeter. 3. Just checked connections at batteries...did not think to look at alternator since we were getting output from the alternator. 4. Yes 5. Don't know about the fuel pressure. Could it be intermittent? Fuel delivery "seems" ok...no means of checking it; just that it works fine most of the time. Thanks, John
(John Fregia) I know that this is not a specific newsgroup for diesel questions BUT where do I go? My son recently bought a used (97) diesel Chevy Silverado. When we looked at it (and had a mechanic look at it), everything seemed fine. All of a sudden the engine stops. Diagnostic lights came on that said "check Battery". We fixed a connector that showed a little corrosion...it stopped again. Now, we are replacing the battery. Question 1: are we barking up the wrong tree? does this problem seem fuel related or electrical related? Question 2: If you don't want me on this newsgroup, is there a suggestion as to where to look? John
Ok John... I have some questions for you. 1.Does the engine turn over? 2.Does your battery have voltage? 3.When you checked the battery connections. Did you check you check just the terminals? Or did you also check the batter connections at alternator,starter,also where its grounded? 4.If it does start . Do you have voltage to your battery from you alternator? 5.If its yes to all of the above. Do you have fuel pressure? See you need more information. Just that it started ,stopped,and you replaced a terminal isnt enough. Give more info and we might be able to help. Steve C
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well you have ever right to be HOT, i would be too. thats why i check everything before i leave the dealer, and make the tech reset the change oil light in front of me. i had one teh tell me he NEVER resets it UNLESS its on. well after he said that, i went straight to the service writer and told them that that tech is NEVER to touch my truck again. when asked why i said that, i told her what he stated.
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Quality is important Group: alt.autos.4x4.chevy-trucks Date: Sun, Oct 12, 2003, 4:35pm (CDT+1) From: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net (Jbew3) Here is a letter I sent today to my dealer and to Chevrolet. Does anybody think they care? Letter to: Vice President of Service Criswell Chevrolet 503 Quince Orchard Rd. Gaithersburg, MD 20878 Vice President of Service General Motors- Chevrolet Division 300 Renaissance Center PO 300 Detroit, MI 48265-3000 Gentlemen: A customer's attitude about quality is something that once lost is rarely re-established. 300 miles after a 12,000 mile service on my 2003 Silverado I found the oil refill cap missing. What damage was done I, nor you have any idea? The mechanic that replaced the cap on Saturday told me the engine runs with 2 lbs. of positive crankcase pressure. I have no idea if he told me the truth. I suspect it is the other way around. Please advise. Criswell quickly replace the cap, but they DID NOT CHANGE THE OIL. With only 300 miles on the oil I can understand a thrifty attitude, you are not leaving me with a satisfied attitude. I paid someone else to change the oil in the event something got into my engine. What hurts most is that I do not have confidence that the engine will now see its service life. Criswell uses a 27-point vehicle inspection. Item 13 refers to Engine and Transmission oil leaks. Considering what happened do you for a minute I think any of the 26 other items were performed. Sincerely
OK um the chances of something jumping into your engine is slim. Unless you have a filthy engine compartment or you drive with your hood up. As far a GM goes they may express their concern. But Dealers are usually indenpendant . The dealer is responsible not GM. There is positive crank pressure. And if there was a problem I think you would have seen symptoms by now. Usually they look for leaks before changing the oil. Mind you i'm in no way takeing sides. But i think your over reacting just a bit. Steve C
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(Jbew3)

No, I don't think he's necessarily over-reacting. He took his vehicle into a licensed repair facility, one that's very tightly associated with the manufacturer, and they failed to put his oil cap back on. I would be furious as well, and would be expecting the dealership to do everything within reason (ie - no new engine installed for free) to make their wrong right again. There is always a possibility within 300 miles of a severe amount of dust entering an engine through an open hole, or, just as bad, water.
Also, if a properly working engine ran on 2psi crankcase pressure, why aren't all the breather filters in the world soaked with combustion by-products? Haven't we all seen the older worn out engines with this problem - when the PCV system can no longer compensate for the amount of blow-by, but have we ever seen it on a properly operating new engine? I haven't.
I think compensation for the oil change done elsewhere and a free service at the dealership should be in order. They have to at least have a chance to prove compentence. If they don't, they no, I wouldn't go back there.
Just my $.02
Jeremy

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(Jbew3)

the
idea?
runs
told me

With
are
change
will
Engine
Unless
up. As

usually
positive
seen
oil.
reacting
vehicle into

the
be
everything
wrong
severe
bad,
What about that insulation crap plastered to the underside of the hood? My god, if it would have been my truck I'd have worried about that too. Even though it might not cause any damage! Sure seems like it might plug some of those tiny holes in the head, or even the oil filter.

why
this
amount of

engine? I

service at

chance to

there.
Prove competence a second time? Not with me they don't.
Hatt
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(Jbew3)

Not with me either. (I actually do *all* my own work, except mounting/balancing tires and front end alignments), but working in retail, if I make a mistake with a customer (pull part for wrong year or something brain dead like that), I'd expect to be able to make it right, and keep the customer. Granted, me handing the wrong part to someone is alot different than me doing a poor (or downright wrong) job on a service.
Now I'm up to $.04... :-)
Jeremy

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============ ============ snipped-for-privacy@l-c-s-1.n-e-t (JeremyChavers) wrote........
Prove competence a second time? Not with me they don't.
Not with me either. (I actually do *all* my own work, except mounting/balancing tires and front end alignments),
but working in retail, if I make a mistake with a customer (pull part for wrong year or something brain dead like that), I'd expect to be able to make it right, and keep the customer.
Granted, me handing the wrong part to someone is alot different than me doing a poor (or downright wrong) job on a service. Now I'm up to $.04... :-)
Jeremy ============ ============ Jeremy, so it's okay for you to hand out the wrong parts? But the poor slob in the bay can't make a mistake every once in a while? That's kinda hypocritical......don't yuh thunk?
Let's say......he handed over a 30 amp instead of a 5 amp fuse?
Let's say....he handed over 16 gauge wire instead of 12 gauge?
Let's say ....he handed over Dot 3 fluid instead of Dot 5?
Let's say......................................
everybody makes mistakes ...........and give the poor slob a break.
I have worked on Auotmobiles for over 27 years.......
AND I STILL MAKE MISTAKES..................
it's comforting to know......there are so many perfect people in this NG......
that means everyones giving perfect advice EVERY TIME...........
yeah rite.......
your ass in a pickle jar......
marsh monster ~:~would've punched the complaining idiot if he was a jerk about it~:~
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(Jeremy Chavers) wrote........
Prove competence a second time? Not with me they don't.
Not with me either. (I actually do *all* my own work, except mounting/balancing tires and front end alignments),
but working in retail, if I make a mistake with a customer (pull part for wrong year or something brain dead like that), I'd expect to be able to make it right, and keep the customer.
Granted, me handing the wrong part to someone is alot different than me doing a poor (or downright wrong) job on a service. Now I'm up to $.04... :-)
Jeremy ======================Jeremy, so it's okay for you to hand out the wrong parts?
---- I never said it's "OK" for me to hand out wrong parts, just that I'd appreciate the chance to make it right.
But the poor slob in the bay can't make a mistake every once in a while?
---- I never said he couldn't. I just won't take my vehicles to anyone - because I can't justify spending whatever the hourly rate is for labor now (about 60-70 bux?) to have someone do something I know I can do, especially when I myself don't make anywhere *near* $60/hr.
That's kinda hypocritical......don't yuh thunk?
Let's say......he handed over a 30 amp instead of a 5 amp fuse?
Let's say....he handed over 16 gauge wire instead of 12 gauge?
Let's say ....he handed over Dot 3 fluid instead of Dot 5?
Let's say......................................
everybody makes mistakes ...........and give the poor slob a break.
I have worked on Auotmobiles for over 27 years.......
AND I STILL MAKE MISTAKES..................
it's comforting to know......there are so many perfect people in this NG......
that means everyones giving perfect advice EVERY TIME...........
yeah rite.......
your ass in a pickle jar......
marsh monster ~:~would've punched the complaining idiot if he was a jerk about it~:~
---- And lemme tell ya MM......about 95% of the people that come in and say "You gave me the wrong part" falls back on them having given me the wrong information to start with. No, I'm not perfect, just confident in my skills.
Jeremy
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"Jeremy Chavers" wrote

Jeremy, I hope that you don't really think that technicians actually make 60 dollars an hour? That would be a mistake.
Ian
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for
do,
No, they don't, and I know that, but that's what I have to pay a service dept for them to work on my vehicle. I used to work in a shop and I know how the game is played.
Jeremy

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"Jeremy Chavers"wrote
I used to work in a shop and I know

And that...probably more then anything....is why you don't want to pay anyone to do your work. Totally understandable....once you've been there.
Ian
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Hmm...it's probably the fact that I know I care more about my vehicle than someone else does - I saw it every day at the shop. I can take my time and check over *everything* when I'm doing something, but the 'system' forces high job turnover rates to bring in more cash, which leads to hurrying up on jobs and not paying attention to the details, or taking the time to try to do things like let the PB Blaster soak in to free the bolt instead of just breaking it off and drilling/tapping (at more cost).
Jeremy

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==== Marsh Monster asked Jeremy some questions.........
<snip>
Jeremy, So it's okay for you to hand out the wrong parts....but the poor slob in the bay can't make a mistake every once in a while?
That's kinda hypocritical......don't yuh thunk?
I have worked on Auotmobiles for over 27 years....... AND I STILL MAKE MISTAKES..................
Marsh Monster ==== ===== Jeremy put forth this in his defense.....
<snipped excessively>
---- I never said he couldn't. I just won't take my vehicles to anyone - because I can't justify spending whatever the hourly rate is for labor now (about 60-70 bux?) to have someone do something I know I can do, especially when I myself don't make anywhere *near* $60/hr.
---- I never said it's "OK" for me to hand out wrong parts, just that I'd appreciate the chance to make it right.
---- And lemme tell ya MM......about 95% of the people that come in and say "You gave me the wrong part" falls back on them having given me the wrong information to start with.
No, I'm not perfect, just confident in my skills. Jeremy ======== ======== all this chatter caused Marsh to quit picking his nose long enought to reply.........
Jeremy, Point well taken.
I served a sentence in the Parts Biz years ago...and even now in the service sector..... the 95% rule is true, when it comes to misinformation.
I can also understand the reasoning for doing your own work. I lambaste no-one for pinching a penny.......but as with you.....I am sure the poor slob would have much more appreciated an attitude of understanding, and a chance for "making it right".........instead of the attitude that was presented to him.
Eons ago.......I served sentences in dealerships. I know todays techs approach vehicals with a different manner than the old guns did.......but the basic attitude is still prevelant among the Dealer Techs.......... THEY ARE CONFIDENT IN THEIR ABILITIES. And very justifieably so. They by far have access to the best training ....and hands down they have access to better technical support. But......everyone makes mistakes......that's a fact of life my friend. And if "The Pissed Off Dude" is in his own little mistake free world.... and has no understanding of how daily life is actually lived.......THEN FK EM!!!!!
I still say I would've punched em in the nose. Maybe not 27 years ago.......but now....yeah.. I would've given him a poke. As a matter of fact, I would like to know why one of the Vets in the dealership didn't stand up fer the poor mechanic slob....and poke em in the nose fer him.
any whoooo.......
The first comment in your reply to "The Pissed Off Dude".....sorta,kinda,maybe..... sounded like you took agreement with the way he handled the situation.
AND THAT PISSED ME OFF.......
so......if you will make a public statement in this NG.......stateing.......you are sorry fer duh misunderstanding........and that in the future you will attempt to get yer point across in a more explicit manner......
I will accept it as my misreading the situation... and i will forgive you.
however.....if you don't ......
I will log you into my "No Compassion" file, and open it ever onced-in-a-whilst to mess with you.
marsh monster "Master Fool" ~:~experience is a hard school to learn in..... but fools will learn in no other~:~
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*snipped for long-windedness*
any whoooo.......
The first comment in your reply to "The Pissed Off Dude".....sorta,kinda,maybe..... sounded like you took agreement with the way he handled the situation.
AND THAT PISSED ME OFF.......
so......if you will make a public statement in this NG.......stateing.......you are sorry fer duh misunderstanding........and that in the future you will attempt to get yer point across in a more explicit manner......
I will accept it as my misreading the situation... and i will forgive you.
however.....if you don't ......
I will log you into my "No Compassion" file, and open it ever onced-in-a-whilst to mess with you.
---- I never said that "I agree with the way you handled this", I said that I didn't think he was necessarily over-reacting, but I have had problems with Chevy service departments before (had a radiator hose rub thru on a battery tray on a car that was less than 2 months old and when I took it in half an hour before closing, they said they wouldn't be able to get to it that day, but wouldn't give me something else to drive (dealer I bought the car from), had a rack replaced in that same car 3 times and after the 2nd time, the subframe started 'clunking' on severe traction changes, and after 5 attempts to correct it, the dealer's answer was "these aren't normal driving conditions" (dealer close to where I worked), etc), but I didn't write a letter to GM. I asked one of the 'customer satisfaction' guys at the GM plant I worked with where the best service dept was and started going there, and had *excellent* service. It was a bit out of the way, but these people took care of me - as far as doing warranty work when the car was out of warranty (e-brake handle broke about 2000 miles out of warranty and they replaced it for me). (For those of you in the Pittsburgh area, that excellent dealer was Day Chevy on Golden Mile Highway in Monroeville -- I won't name the other two).
Jeremy
marsh monster "Master Fool" ~:~experience is a hard school to learn in..... but fools will learn in no other~:~
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.
mashedmunster wrote.....
*snipped for long-windedness* any whoooo....... The first comment in your reply to "The Pissed Off Dude".....sorta,kinda,maybe..... sounded like you took agreement with the way he handled the situation.
AND THAT PISSED ME OFF.......
so......if you will make a public statement in this NG.......stateing.......you are sorry fer duh misunderstanding........and that in the future you will attempt to get yer point across in a more explicit manner......
I will accept it as my misreading the situation... and i will forgive you.
however.....if you don't ......
I will log you into my "No Compassion" file, and open it ever onced-in-a-whilst to mess with you. marsh monster ~:~ === === . snipped-for-privacy@l-c-s-1.n-e-t (JeremyChavers) replies......
---- I never said that "I agree with the way you handled this", I said that I didn't think he was necessarily over-reacting, but I have had problems with Chevy service departments before (had a radiator hose rub thru on a battery tray on a car that was less than 2 months old and when I took it in half an hour before closing, they said they wouldn't be able to get to it that day, but wouldn't give me something else to drive (dealer I bought the car from), had a rack replaced in that same car 3 times and after the 2nd time, the subframe started 'clunking' on severe traction changes, and after 5 attempts to correct it, the dealer's answer was "these aren't normal driving conditions" (dealer close to where I worked), etc), but I didn't write a letter to GM. I asked one of the 'customer satisfaction' guys at the GM plant I worked with where the best service dept was and started going there, and had *excellent* service. It was a bit out of the way, but these people took care of me - as far as doing warranty work when the car was out of warranty (e-brake handle broke about 2000 miles out of warranty and they replaced it for me). (For those of you in the Pittsburgh area, that excellent dealer was Day Chevy on Golden Mile Highway in Monroeville -- I won't name the other two). Jeremy ==== ====
Jeremy, I do beleive......
I definately misread the post.
marsh monster ~:~
.
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hmm.. must be the other 5%
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