R134a retrofit?

Page 1 of 2  
What is the procedure nowadays? When I did my '84 Chevy truck, I pulled the compressor, changed to the new oil, evacuated the system, then recharged with 134a (with equal to or better than R12 results).
I have heard of people just removing the R12, evacuating, and recharging with the 134a, using the old R12 oil.
I have a relative who changed to the new oil, but didn't bother to evacuate before charging with 134a, and his truck (89? Ford) seems to work fine.
The vehicle in question is not a Chevy truck, but my '90 Geo Metro. It needs a shot of freon, and with the cost of R12 being so high (I'm licensed), it is finally time to retrofit, and I'd like to do make sure the compressor won't have any oil issues.
Input?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Do a google search on alt.autos.camaro.firebird for 134a, response posted a day or so ago by CBHvac. He owns a HVAC company and knows his stuff. That thread will give you all the info you need, and then some.
-- 98 Camaro

the
evacuate
needs
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

it
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Don't ask me. CBHvac and I have been in the same group for years. I just trust his judgement. He knows his stuff. His company is carolinabreeze.com.
-- 98 Camaro

pulled
recharged
recharging
fine.
licensed),
compressor
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

probably for a while it will be ok. It took the EPA something like 15 years to phase out R-12. I really want more information about his idea of using 410a as a coolant to top up a R-12 system. I don't remember anything about R-410a (Puron) having the same properties as R-12 (Freon). It's also interesting that he says R-12 is $30 per pound...
mark
site about puron---> http://www.puron.com/pages/puron01.htm
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Yeah, $30 a LB for R12 is radical in my neck (like $80 in OH), but he does know his stuff. Just post to him and he will give you the info you need. Trust me, he is a great and knowledable guy. I would not toute him if he was not.
-- 98 Camaro

"controlled"??
years
about
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
cb is a HOUSE ac guy,,,,, find my posts on the subject.... Automotive AC is what i do
: > What is the procedure nowadays? When I did my '84 Chevy truck, I pulled : the : > compressor, changed to the new oil, evacuated the system, then recharged : > with 134a (with equal to or better than R12 results). : > : > I have heard of people just removing the R12, evacuating, and recharging : > with the 134a, using the old R12 oil. : > : > I have a relative who changed to the new oil, but didn't bother to : evacuate : > before charging with 134a, and his truck (89? Ford) seems to work fine. : > : > The vehicle in question is not a Chevy truck, but my '90 Geo Metro. It : needs : > a shot of freon, and with the cost of R12 being so high (I'm licensed), it : > is finally time to retrofit, and I'd like to do make sure the compressor : > won't have any oil issues. : > : > Input? : > : > : : :
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Yes, but he is very knowledgable in auto as well. He owns a home cooling heating comp., but know as ton on cars. Look at the post I mention. He mentions coolants I have never heard of, but in research are very viable.
-- 98 Camaro

pulled
recharged
recharging
fine.
licensed),
compressor
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

the
evacuate
needs
Buddy of mine just had an r-12 car system "topped off" with R134a. Works fine.
I never would have thunk it.
db
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
That's new. I always thought the two freons were incapatable, and they should never be mixed...

it
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
CFC (r-12) is based in chlorine (hence the supposed reaction with the ozone in the atmosphere----- r-12 has never been proven to harm ozone). HFC (r-134a) is not based in chlorine, and should never be mixed with r-12 in a refrigeration system.
Most retro kits did not work as well as OEM systems do now, since 134a requires MUCH less to cool the same amount of air (hence more energy efficient). When recharging the AC system on my old 86.5 nissan hardbody it took several pounds of r-12 (with only topping the system off), and (assuming memory serves) my 2001 honda crv requires less than a pound of 134a.
the major difference between the two according to my instruction was the size of the tubing in the entire system, r-12 needed larger tubes than 134a, and attempting to use the r-12 "legacy" type evaporator/condenser units in addition to the compressor... depending on how much you love your car, I would consult the dealer for info about new evaporator/condenser/compressor set to really use the system wisely.
as for r-12... if you burn it, you have made mustard gas.... arent you happy we dont have that available for saddam and ossama?

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The burning of R-12 does not produce mustard gas, it produces phosgene gas. While both phosgene gas and mustard gas were used on the battlefield during WW1, mustard gas was used later as it was found to be a much nastier blister agent than phosgene. Today, phosgene is used in the manufacturing of plastics and pesticides. It's very low, if on the list at all, on the Muslims wish list for an agent to be used against us.
Rita
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

gas.
it produces phosphene gas, not phosgene (mustard) gas

during
blister
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

nope
burning R-12 creates phosphene gas
mustard gas is phosgene gas
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
it's not that they are incompatible, it is that the vapor pressures are additive
say you have 90 degrees ambient, the R-12 is at 150 psi leaving compressor, the R-134a is at 250, you end up with 400 psi

pulled
recharged
recharging
fine.
licensed),
compressor
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Gary, this doesn't sound realistic. Are we talking about "psi?" If you try to add 150 to 250 nothing will happen unless you adjust the output to 400. If you have 2 tanks of air, one with 150 and one with 250, and you connect a line between them, the pressure will equalize, not add one to the other. Also, temperature has an effect on pressure but very little effect on output of the compressor. Temperature does have lots to do with cooling capacities of freon. Does changing the type of freon change the output of the compressor? Just my 02. .

It
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
you are not talking 'air + air '
you are talking about two vapors, each with it's own pressure
and they add to each other

Metro.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Guess I started a "good" conversation... I'm still wondering how I should attack my problem.

to
work
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
change accumulator, orifice tube, add about 4 oz of new oil to make up what was in the accumulator, pump it down and recharge until you get about 50 psi on the low side, watch vent output temps, when it gets down to about 40-45 on 'Max Air', fan on hi, windows closed, you are done.
you will probably have to block the throttle to about 1500 rpm, and set up a box fan to blow air thru the condenser while charging it
watch the high-side pressure, it can rise pretty quick, try to keep it under 250 or so

I
bother
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Thanks.

truck,
then
and
the
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.