Spark Plugs

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My repair shop charged me $13.78 each for 6 platimum spark plugs (original Equipment) plus the hourly rate to install them.
Did I get ripped??

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How long did they spend changing them?
I figure no, because if you didn't have the time to change 'em yourself you should be so busy and prosperous that it was worth paying 'em to do it for you.
~KJ~ /time is money no matter how little you value it (or them)

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good point
if they spent a lot more than 'book time', they may have cranked to parts up a bit to compensate

(original
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I've seen platinum plugs go as high as $20 each depending on the make i.e. high performance racing plugs. So you may or may not have paid "too much".
With regards to being "busy and prosperous enough..." that argument is a load of crap. From my personal experience it is usually spouted by the following people:
1. lame asses who couldn't tell you the difference between a hammer and a socket wrench 2. people who really can't afford to spend the money to have it done because they live on credit and have already spent it on other useless "crap"
Also from personal experience "wealthy" guys either:
1. don't give a shit and let somebody else do it anyways 2. like doing it and would do it anyways
I have yet to meet somebody that is so busy that they make money every waking hour of their lives. People who have "earned" their wealth know how to manage their time and make money.
Unless your personal secretary makes all the arrangements to have your company vehicle serviced, I bet I can have the parts delivered to my door at dealer price and have them installed in under an hour of my "free time" on Saturday morning - while you are still waiting in line to pay the mechanic to do it for you.
Mind your pennies and the dollars will mind themselves.
Just a thought.

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much".
No it isn't a load of crap. One hour you spend under your hood is one hour you could be making money, it's that simple. 1 = 1 all the time, not some of the time. It may not be practicle to work all the time, but it's just as simple a concept as is a mathmatic equation.
<takes the quiz >

[ ] True [ x ] False

because
[ ] True [ x ] False

[ ] True [ ] False [ x ] Other: N/A (not wealthy)

[ x ] True [ ] False

[ x ] Me too.

make money.

at
Perhaps he has a 4.3L S10 Blazer, which is a little bit of work.... jus' a thought.

~KJ~ Your either making it or your spending it.
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Lets use your mathematic approach to do a cost analysis (yes I'm wasting time on this this morning).
The catch is the term "could be".
The real measure is how much money is in your pocket at the end of the day.
If I turn down paying work to fix my car there might be a problem.
What's the break even point?
Around here mechanics charge $75/hr plus parts. Lets assume we are competant enough to change the plugs in the same amount of time as a mechanic - 1 hour. Also assume we buy the plugs at retail rate which would be the same price as the mechanic sells them for. Assume $4 each on my V8.
Scenario 1: * I work 60 hours per week, Monday through Friday * Saturday morning I spend my time off replacing the plugs * Total cost to me: $4x8=$32
Scenario 2: * I work 60 hours per week, Monday through Friday * Saturday morning I spend my time taking the vehicle to the mechanic to replace the plugs * Total cost to me: $4x8 + $75 = $107 -------------------------------------------------------- Conclusion: Scenario 1 wins as I am $75 richer -------------------------------------------------------- Scenario 3: * I work 60 hours per week, Monday through Friday, I earn $50/hr * Saturday morning I spend my time off replacing the plugs * Total cost to me: $4x8 = $32
Scenario 4: * I work 60 hours per week, Monday through Friday, I earn $50/hr * Some weekday morning I take the vehicle to the mechanic to replace the plugs * Total cost to me: $4x8 + $75 = $107
Scenario 5: * I work 60 hours per week, Monday through Friday, I earn $50/hr * Some weekday morning I take time off work to replace the plugs * Total cost to me: $4x8 + $50 = $82 -------------------------------------------------------- Conclusion: Scenario 3 wins as I am $75 richer. Scenario 5 takes second place as I am $25 richer -------------------------------------------------------- Scenario 6: * I work 60 hours per week, Monday through Friday, I earn $100/hr * Saturday morning I spend my time off replacing the plugs * Total cost to me: $4x8 = $32
Scenario 7: * I work 60 hours per week, Monday through Friday, I earn $100/hr * Some weekday morning I take the vehicle to the mechanic to replace the plugs * Total cost to me: $4x8 + $75 = $107
Scenario 8: * I work 60 hours per week, Monday through Friday, I earn $100/hr * Some weekday morning I take time off work to replace the plugs * Total cost to me: $4x8 + $100 = $132 -------------------------------------------------------- Conclusion: Scenario 6 wins as I am $100 richer. Scenario 7 takes second place as I am $25 richer. -------------------------------------------------------- Based on these examples, the earnings break even point is approximately $150,000 a year to make changing the plugs myself during regular paid working time worth it.
However, in all cases, I am further ahead (more money in my pocket at the end of the day) doing the vehicle repairs myself on my time off.
The issue is really lifestyle - "do I want to do it myself" or "let somebody else do it and spend my time elsewhere".
Do you like to work harder or work smarter?
Here's a different way of looking at things. Let's assume I make $50 per hour ($100,000 per year approx.) and I want to know how much work I need to do in order to change my spark plugs. Assume my weekends are mine and are unpaid.
Fix it myself costs $32. I need to work 0.64 hours to pay for this repair.
Mechanic fixes it costs $107. I need to work 2.14 hours to pay for this repair.
You have to work 3.34 times longer to pay for the repair done by the mechanic. Another way of looking at it is I have now lost 1.5 working hours to pay for the repair. In effect, in order to break even, you now have to work 1.5 more hours in a week to pay the mechanic to do it for you. Spending 1 hour Saturday morning starts sounding better, doesn't it?
Which is a better use of your paid time?
Look at it from the lifestyle point of view. We both work 60 hours a week and make $100,000 per year. On Saturday morning I go into my garage, put the car on the lift, use my tools to do the repairs I choose to do. You sit at home and relax watching satellite TV. Family time? I take my kids into the garage and teach them how to be self sufficient and to have a work ethic. You get to sit with your kids and watch TV.
Which lifestyle do you choose?

i.e.
a
door
on
mechanic
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I choose:
Making more that $150,000 a year (Hopefully I'll be there in just a few years) And I am just saying, not that it is practical or whatnot, but your either spending it or your making it. I don't think he should have had the plugs changed for him, I think he should have done them himself. But if he decided it was worth the $ for someone else to do it, why is he whining? Then the other thing is, what is he going to do - present expert NG support that he should get a partial refund?
~KJ~

a
the
money,
and
and
time"
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My comment would be "cry me a river". He is paying for expert service after all, stop whining about it. The price didn't sound too outrageous to me for what he had done. Especially if his car is a VW getting done at the dealer.
I wish I was making $150,000 a year. But then again maybe not. Half would go to the government. I'd rather keep "just breaking even" ;-)
Did you watch Frontline on PBS last week on how all these billion dollar corporations are just getting by and paying no taxes? Where are those ex-Enron accountants when I need them?

decided
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No I haven't seen them, but it's another thing that is probably worth the time to learn. The way my boss puts it is he "doesn't do his own taxes because it's too easy to cheat".
~KJ~

either
plugs
the
he
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Re: Spark Plugs Group: alt.autos.4x4.chevy-trucks Date: Thu, Feb 26, 2004, 9:05am From: mike snipped-for-privacy@NOSPAMnetlane.com (PortlyStout) Lets use your mathematic approach to do a cost analysis (yes I'm wasting time on this this morning). The catch is the term "could be". The real measure is how much money is in your pocket at the end of the day. If I turn down paying work to fix my car there might be a problem. What's the break even point? Around here mechanics charge $75/hr plus parts. Lets assume we are competant enough to change the plugs in the same amount of time as a mechanic - 1 hour. Also assume we buy the plugs at retail rate which would be the same price as the mechanic sells them for. Assume $4 each on my V8. Scenario 1: * I work 60 hours per week, Monday through Friday * Saturday morning I spend my time off replacing the plugs * Total cost to me: $4x8=$32 Scenario 2: * I work 60 hours per week, Monday through Friday * Saturday morning I spend my time taking the vehicle to the mechanic to replace the plugs * Total cost to me: $4x8 + $75 = $107 ---------------------------------------------- Conclusion: Scenario 1 wins as I am $75 richer ---------------------------------------------- Scenario 3: * I work 60 hours per week, Monday through Friday, I earn $50/hr * Saturday morning I spend my time off replacing the plugs * Total cost to me: $4x8 = $32 Scenario 4: * I work 60 hours per week, Monday through Friday, I earn $50/hr * Some weekday morning I take the vehicle to the mechanic to replace the plugs * Total cost to me: $4x8 + $75 = $107 Scenario 5: * I work 60 hours per week, Monday through Friday, I earn $50/hr * Some weekday morning I take time off work to replace the plugs * Total cost to me: $4x8 + $50 = $82 ---------------------------------------------- Conclusion: Scenario 3 wins as I am $75 richer. Scenario 5 takes second place as I am $25 richer ---------------------------------------------- Scenario 6: * I work 60 hours per week, Monday through Friday, I earn $100/hr * Saturday morning I spend my time off replacing the plugs * Total cost to me: $4x8 = $32 Scenario 7: * I work 60 hours per week, Monday through Friday, I earn $100/hr * Some weekday morning I take the vehicle to the mechanic to replace the plugs * Total cost to me: $4x8 + $75 = $107 Scenario 8: * I work 60 hours per week, Monday through Friday, I earn $100/hr * Some weekday morning I take time off work to replace the plugs * Total cost to me: $4x8 + $100 = $132 ---------------------------------------------- Conclusion: Scenario 6 wins as I am $100 richer. Scenario 7 takes second place as I am $25 richer. ---------------------------------------------- Based on these examples, the earnings break even point is approximately $150,000 a year to make changing the plugs myself during regular paid working time worth it. However, in all cases, I am further ahead (more money in my pocket at the end of the day) doing the vehicle repairs myself on my time off. The issue is really lifestyle - "do I want to do it myself" or "let somebody else do it and spend my time elsewhere". Do you like to work harder or work smarter? Here's a different way of looking at things. Let's assume I make $50 per hour ($100,000 per year approx.) and I want to know how much work I need to do in order to change my spark plugs. Assume my weekends are mine and are unpaid. Fix it myself costs $32. I need to work 0.64 hours to pay for this repair. Mechanic fixes it costs $107. I need to work 2.14 hours to pay for this repair. You have to work 3.34 times longer to pay for the repair done by the mechanic. Another way of looking at it is I have now lost 1.5 working hours to pay for the repair. In effect, in order to break even, you now have to work 1.5 more hours in a week to pay the mechanic to do it for you. Spending 1 hour Saturday morning starts sounding better, doesn't it? Which is a better use of your paid time? Look at it from the lifestyle point of view. We both work 60 hours a week and make $100,000 per year. On Saturday morning I go into my garage, put the car on the lift, use my tools to do the repairs I choose to do. You sit at home and relax watching satellite TV. Family time? I take my kids into the garage and teach them how to be self sufficient and to have a work ethic. You get to sit with your kids and watch TV. Which lifestyle do you choose?
I've seen platinum plugs go as high as $20 each depending on the make i.e. high performance racing plugs. So you may or may not have paid "too much". With regards to being "busy and prosperous enough..." that argument is a load of crap. From my personal experience it is usually spouted by the following people: No it isn't a load of crap. One hour you spend under your hood is one hour you could be making money, it's that simple. 1 = 1 all the time, not some of the time. It may not be practicle to work all the time, but it's just as simple a concept as is a mathmatic equation. <takes the quiz > 1. lame asses who couldn't tell you the difference between a hammer and a socket wrench [ ] True [ x ] False 2. people who really can't afford to spend the money to have it done because they live on credit and have already spent it on other useless "crap" [ ] True [ x ] False Also from personal experience "wealthy" guys either: 1. don't give a shit and let somebody else do it anyways [ ] True [ ] False [ x ] Other: N/A (not wealthy) 2. like doing it and would do it anyways [ x ] True [ ] False I have yet to meet somebody that is so busy that they make money every waking hour of their lives. [ x ] Me too. People who have "earned" their wealth know how to manage their time and make money. Unless your personal secretary makes all the arrangements to have your company vehicle serviced, I bet I can have the parts delivered to my door at dealer price and have them installed in under an hour of my "free time" on Saturday morning - while you are still waiting in line to pay the mechanic to do it for you. Perhaps he has a 4.3L S10 Blazer, which is a little bit of work.... jus' a thought. Mind your pennies and the dollars will mind themselves. Just a thought. ~KJ~ Your either making it or your spending it. try this scenario: you lose a day of work. you strip two plug holes, one in each cylinder head due to the fact that you may bot have the mechanics touch, or may have pulled the plugs out of your aluminum cylinder heads while the engine was hot. now you have to take your car to an experienced tech. spend money on a rental car for a few days while they rmove the heads and attempt to heli-coil the ruined spark plug holes. which is possible if you are lucky. so now for the math: your do-it yourself plugs have now cost you $600-$???. hmmmmm not so tough a call. that is why real tachs such as myself go to college and train continuously to keep ourselves in the top of the industry
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~KJ~ Your either making it or your spending it. try this scenario: you lose a day of work. you strip two plug holes, one in each cylinder head due to the fact that you may bot have the mechanics touch, or may have pulled the plugs out of your aluminum cylinder heads while the engine was hot. now you have to take your car to an experienced tech. spend money on a rental car for a few days while they rmove the heads and attempt to heli-coil the ruined spark plug holes. which is possible if you are lucky. so now for the math: your do-it yourself plugs have now cost you $600-$???. hmmmmm not so tough a call. that is why real tachs such as myself go to college and train continuously to keep ourselves in the top of the industry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- If I'm that much of a dumb-ass it would serve me right.
Also consider that the "experienced" mechanic can do the same thing. You don't think the mechanic would soak me for stripping my plugs for me do you?
Unlike some "mechanics" I don't use the 3/4" impact gun to cross thread and drive the plug home.
I've had a enough bad experiences with licensed and recommended "Class A" mechanics. One good guy in the shop doesn't guarantee that some snot nosed kid from the ex K-Mart parts department isn't doing your brakes or oil changes. I don't mind paying for my own f*ck-ups, but I do have a problem paying someone to do it for me...
Don't try and scare me into using the services of a mechanic.
I CAN and will pick and choose my jobs after all. I really don't want to rebuild my auto tranny myself - not worth the time or effort. Neither is taking the vehicle in for fluids service or brake changes.
I'm not trying to down your skills or services KJ. Just don't feed me horror stories on how you saved the day - especially when you can't be bothered to spell check first. Doesn't give me lots of confidence.
Cheers
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Re: Spark Plugs Group: alt.autos.4x4.chevy-trucks Date: Fri, Feb 27, 2004, 8:40am From: mike snipped-for-privacy@NOSPAMnetlane.com (PortlyStout) ~KJ~ Your either making it or your spending it. try this scenario: you lose a day of work. you strip two plug holes, one in each cylinder head due to the fact that you may bot have the mechanics touch, or may have pulled the plugs out of your aluminum cylinder heads while the engine was hot. now you have to take your car to an experienced tech. spend money on a rental car for a few days while they rmove the heads and attempt to heli-coil the ruined spark plug holes. which is possible if you are lucky. so now for the math: your do-it yourself plugs have now cost you $600-$???. hmmmmm not so tough a call. that is why real tachs such as myself go to college and train continuously to keep ourselves in the top of the industry ---------------------------------------------- -------- If I'm that much of a dumb-ass it would serve me right. Also consider that the "experienced" mechanic can do the same thing. You don't think the mechanic would soak me for stripping my plugs for me do you? Unlike some "mechanics" I don't use the 3/4" impact gun to cross thread and drive the plug home. I've had a enough bad experiences with licensed and recommended "Class A" mechanics. One good guy in the shop doesn't guarantee that some snot nosed kid from the ex K-Mart parts department isn't doing your brakes or oil changes. I don't mind paying for my own f*ck-ups, but I do have a problem paying someone to do it for me... Don't try and scare me into using the services of a mechanic. I CAN and will pick and choose my jobs after all. I really don't want to rebuild my auto tranny myself - not worth the time or effort. Neither is taking the vehicle in for fluids service or brake changes. I'm not trying to down your skills or services KJ. Just don't feed me horror stories on how you saved the day - especially when you can't be bothered to spell check first. Doesn't give me lots of confidence. Cheers what is it you do for work? does your employer not mark up your labor, or make a profit on the product or service he provides? don't you think someone is doing the same thing cheaper even if the quality is inferior?
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Hey port, that wasn't my post. Pete spends soooo much time chanting 'righty loosey - whitey tities (that's right, correct?) that he can't differentiate between his post and someone else's for the viewing public.
~KJ~

--
you?
and
nosed
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You don't know how many times I get asked this question at work (I work at a parts store).
No, you didn't get ripped, and here's why:
The shop you took your vehicle to has overhead. They have to pay for the building (either lease payments, mortgage payments, or some other sort of payments), they have to pay for electricity, water, sewer, trash, etc. They have to pay the shop owner. They have to pay the shop manager. They have to pay the courier to go get the parts they don't have in stock. They have to pay someone to manage the inventory they do stock. All of this is even before the tech sees the ticket. Once he gets the ticket, that's when the labor charges start - of course he only sees a fraction of those, but again, there's overhead - the equipment in the shop, the services for those equipments (waste oil removal, compressor maintenance, lift maintenance, etc.).
Next time you don't want to pay over $80 for parts for your tune-up, you've always got the option to do it yourself. :-)
Hope you feel a bit better about it now...
JC
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Yeah, they should MAX at about $4-5 each.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 02:38:46 GMT, "Roger A. Johnson"

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with volume incentive discount pricing - get real the shop is there to MAKE MONEY not cut deals.
~KJ~
wrote:

(original
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a platinum plug cost the repair shop more than $4-5 each. everyone is entitled to a profit
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3 or 4 hundred percent markup seems like a ripoff to me. What was the bottom line (plugs+labor)? H
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bottom
Sounds like retail to me. Did you know that a large cup of dunkin donuts coffee including the sugar, cream, and cup costs D&D's $0.05? Why is it a $1.20? Who hands it too you, what about the rent, the dues to the gas station, the franchise dues...et al.
~KJ~
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Re: Spark Plugs Group: alt.autos.4x4.chevy-trucks Date: Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 9:25am (EST-1) From: snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (Hairy)
My repair shop charged me $13.78 each for 6 platimum spark plugs (original Equipment) plus the hourly rate to install them. Did I get ripped?? 3 or 4 hundred percent markup seems like a ripoff to me. What was the bottom line (plugs+labor)? H NO SHOP makes 3-4 hundred percent markup. thats 20/20 prooganda. just a way to keep their ratings up.
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