2003 Acura TL problem

"Maxima" wrote in news:4d06cacf$0$21666$ snipped-for-privacy@news.aliant.net:

Am I to understand that BOTH the D light AND the MIL ("check engine light") illuminate?

Have you had a local dealer query the TCM for codes? These will be different from the MIL codes.

What is the system charging voltage? 14.4VDC? More?

How is the transmission fluid level? Do you know how to check it?

Does the engine rev high at the same time as the vehicle appears to lose power?

When did this start happening? Suddenly? Increasing frequency over time?

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Please be PRECISE, read carefully, and answer ALL the above questions, not just the first, last, or whichever one you feel like answering.

CEL is on, D5 light flash

I found codes with my obI reader. I'd bet my last dollar the dealer will come up with same codes but never know till i go there.>

I don't know, but no problem with starting in -10C

Had car for two days only.

Ok Tegger, lets put your skills to the test and see how good you are.

My acura is currently at the dealer.

"Maxima" wrote in news:4d07b969$0$21677$ snipped-for-privacy@news.aliant.net:

I ain't that good. But I am the only one who responded to your query, and I am dumb enough to hazard a guess.

Your transmission flares. That's a sign of a failing tranny. My guess: Your tranny is one of the (many) defective ones.

There are a number of TSBs out on your automatic transmission, and at least one Safety Recall. The dealer ought to be very familiar with these issues.

Does your vehicle have a punch-mark above the 12th character of the VIN stamped into the firewall? No punch mark likely means the Safety Recall fix was never applied to your car.

Whether or not you'll get a free (or partially free) fix will depend on a number of things. Just because the car's out of warranty does not necessarily mean you are out of luck.

OUCH! Well, I'm in Canada, so I will see how it goes. The car is at dealer, so I cannot check for the punch in serial, however, I do have the serial number here with me. I'm now going to call Acura Canada to see if they are aware of recalls on my vehicle.

Turns out there is a recall on my car.

second gear transmission is what they said

"Maxima" wrote in news:4d07d72d$0$21674$ snipped-for-privacy@news.aliant.net:

These are the documents I'm aware of:

- Heat-damage to 2nd-gear set.

- Safety Recall on account of above.

- Excessive wear of 3rd-gear clutch pack.

- Warranty extension to 7-years, 100,000 miles (160,000 km).

There may be more, but you need to ask your dealer to search for them. Your dealer can search for them by your VIN.

Honda Canada Inc. has a different numbering system for Technical Service Bulletins than American Honda, and calls them "Service Letters" rather than TSBs, but they are often exact duplicates of the US documents.

I've been in contact with quite a number of people who have been pleasantly surprised to find that Honda has been willing to cover at least part of the cost of transmission replacement, even with the car well out of warranty. People who have a good relationship with their dealer, or who use a dealer which has a good relationship with Honda, appear to have had the most success. The results seem to be about evenly-split between Honda covering the whole shot, and Honda covering the parts while the owner pays the labor to the dealer.

It's important to remember that the dealer is NOT "Honda" or "Acura": They only own a franchise from Honda, but are otherwise a totally separate company, with totally separate ownership. The dealer must negotiate with Honda just like you must negotiate with them.

Good luck.

"Maxima" wrote in news:4d07d72d$0$21674$ snipped-for-privacy@news.aliant.net:

If the Safety Recall was never performed on your car, you just may be in luck: You just ...might... qualify for a free fix...

Don't break out the bubbly just yet, but be aware that this possibility just might happen with a bit of (polite and well-reasoned) persuasion on your part. Honda takes Safety Recalls /very/ seriously.

How good are you as a diplomat? You might need that, so keep your powder dry. You just may be able to talk them into giving you a new tranny rather than a fix of the old tranny. How many miles on your car? If it's fairly low, that gives you extra negotiating ammo.

Then again, they may offer you a new tranny without any prompting.

Eh Tegger,

The tranny has never been repaired. When I called Acura/Honda Canada they advised me of the recall, and suggested to have it repaired while at the dealer.

There is 240,000kms on the car, but I do believe this to be irrelevant to this recall.

TEGGER,

Updated info for you!

As suspected I'm dealer with a very unique bunch of people at this dealership. There is one and only Acura Dealership in my area, and it is family owned.

They tried to claim that my vehicle didn't fall under the recall despite Acura Canada adamently stated it was. I then ad to get AC to call the dealership to say yes its covered.

Here is the catch--- I was speaking with the owner and after all this he still says he thinks my vehicle will not be covered but will look into it. They just don't want to do it!

So apparently they take pictures and send them off to acura canada to determine what needs to be fixed. But here's the catch.......the owner does not want to do it and will not do it so he was manipulate this situation to ensure it does not be done.

I originally dropped it off bec something wasn't right with tranny-----I later discovered it was a recall-------now they don't want to fix it.

I'd bet my last dollar they will manipulate the situation and convince acura canada my issue is not the recall and not do the recall.

The dealer is a totally independent company from Honda Canada Inc. You MUST remember that! It's entirely possible that this particular dealer's owner is simply a poor businessman and has managed to piss off Honda Canada (which is normally an easy-going company).

If this standoff is occurring, then it's possible that Honda and this particular dealer are not on the best of terms, and Honda is asking the dealer to eat some of the cost, for whatever reason, and the owner or his staff doesn't want to do that, to your detriment.

Do you have a local HONDA dealer? They may have a better relationship with Honda and might be able to do the job right. A Honda dealer is perfectly capable of fixing this: Accords had the exact same transmission.

Maybe you need to call the Acura line again and tell them about this issue. They may tell you to go to another specific dealership, even a Honda one.

Where are you, anyway? Your traces say you're in Newfoundland.

"Maxima" wrote in news:4d094a71$0$21651$ snipped-for-privacy@news.aliant.net:

First, I was on top of that immediately. I suggested to the Acura Canada Line that I would prefer to go to Honda, which is just next door to me. They declined! So here I am shafted most likely on this issue!

"Maxima" wrote in news:4d0a0007$0$21678$ snipped-for-privacy@news.aliant.net:

What's the dealer's reasoning as to why your car should not be covered under the Safety Recall?

Reason to this point and I quote the owner: I'm pretty convinced your vehicle will not fall under the recall--- end of quote!

I reply: Why? According to the serial there is a recall on my car for the tranny second gear inspection

He replies: You will see

At this point the car is still at the dealer.

"Maxima" wrote in news:4d0ab6e8$0$21667$ snipped-for-privacy@news.aliant.net:

You absolutely need to be both reasonable and creative here.

You may need to make a compromise somewhere. That compromise may mean driving a great distance to the next available Acura dealer, or it may mean trying to find out what it would take to make this happen, with you absorbing at least some of the cost.

Honda appears willing to do something for you, but there seems to be some sort of friction between your dealer and them. Honda cannot help you directly even if they want to: franchise laws require that they work through a franchised dealer.

Maybe all this dealer wants is to avoid absorbing costs. In that case, you could offer to pay his labor if Honda picks up the new tranny. That's a big hit for you, but it's much less than having to pay the whole shot.

Keep in mind that, in spite of whatever Honda has done or not done, you /did/ buy this car on your own. You /are/ the owner. Ownership, especially of something that comes to you in a "used" condition, means assuming some responsibility for any problems that may occur with that thing. This may not seem fair, but it is reality. And both Honda and the dealer are /well/ aware of that fact.

How much you manage to salvage from this situation will depend very greatly on your negotiating skills and your willingness to accept partial solutions.

Or you could just sell the car and let the next owner deal with the problem.

Thanks for your help, however, we have to disagree in one area.

Under any recall, it is Acura's legal responsibility to resolve that issue for safety reasons. Hence, in this case whether this local dealer wants to or not, I would guess they legally have to do it. My issue is, they will work around not replacing the tranny, moreso treating the second gear inspection recall just as they do in Acura TL's with under 15k on them. Mine as over 200k, hence discoloration is almost guaranteed.

"Maxima" wrote in news:4d0b52e6$0$21680$ snipped-for-privacy@news.aliant.net:

I agree 100%. What makes me wonder is why the dealer is balking at something that he's likely going to be legally-required to perform anyway.

Ordinarily a Safety Recall would be covered 100% by Honda, so the dealer wouldn't be out anything, but this might be a special case. I'm suspecting some kind of ill-will between Honda and the dealer, and the dealer is holding out for some kind of concession from Honda.

If the transmission is flaring, the damage is already done. The oil-jet kit is meant to /prevent/ damage, not compensate for it once it happens.

That discoloration means the metal has lost its temper and is now very soft. The tranny is junk and needs to be rebuilt or replaced.

I am /very/ interested in how this one comes out, so an update would ve much appreciated, thank you.

So far, I have never encountered a case (until now) where the dealer refused to perform a Safety Recall. This is really a strange one.

Well here is the latest update:

It seems that the process for the recall approval is going ahead. That is taking pictures and sending them off to the technical dept of Acura Canada (AC). In the meantime, AC did call me as advised they cannot cover the sensor that the dealership is unable to remove without breakage due to high mileage. This is the speed sensor which apparently is siezed on and is required to be removed to take pictures of second gear ratio. If it was low mileage, they would cover it. The sensor is $160.00.

I don't anticipate a response until after xmas. I'm hoping the tranny will be replaced at no cost to me. Based on all my research, all acura with high mileage under the recall of second gear tranny, requires a tranny replacement. I did call another Acura Dealer in Canada for a second opinion.

"Maxima" wrote in news:4d10ff37$0$5580$ snipped-for-privacy@news.aliant.net:

If they cover the tranny but not that $160 speed-sensor, I say go for it. Pay the $160 and consider that you've got an /excellent/ deal.