Abnormal Rotor Wear

Hi all -
I have an 02 TL-S, purchased at ~20K miles, now at 64K miles. When I bought the car (CarMax), the rotors needed to be resurfaced - done by CarMax. I
had them turned again at ~30K miles by the dealer, then all 4 rotors and pads replaced by Acura for free under a Service Bulletin at ~40K miles (the bulletin was for the pads - and included new pads and rotors - WOOT!). I had these turned again at ~50K, right before the warranty expired. At 60K, they needed it again, so I took it back to the dealer hoping they would resolve this once and for all as this is an "ongoing" problem - no dice. The dealer was sympathetic, and forwarded the request to Corporate Acura who told me over the phone after a 3 day wait that they will not warranty rotors outside of the 50K coverage, period. So I waited a few months, and just had them turned again with the purchase of new tires at 64K. That is FIVE times in ~44K miles (20, 30, 40, 50, 64).
I really don't have a problem with the 50K issue as I know this is considered a "wear item", and the pads are wearing evenly - so I don't believe this is an issue with the calipers (but looking for guidance). Is there anything outside of my driving style that could explain the problems I am having with these? This was my last "turn" on this set before they need to be replaced again (in 10K miles), and I will likely go with slotted or drilled for my next set to hopefully alleviate the problem. I'm 35 years old and drive around most of the time with a 2 year old in the back seat - I don't think I would really consider myself an aggressive driver. My previous cars were a '91 Integra, '87 200SX, '88 Legend, and '99 Honda Accord......I never had this type of problem with any of these. I also know the TLS has oversized rotors compared to the regular TL anyway, and I would expect a longer life from these things - everyone I talk to (including the dealer) says this is not normal, but say everything else looks OK and the brakes seem to stop just fine - no pulling, etc., when braking.
Any ideas ?
Thanks!
- Mike
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Why?

Again... why?
then all 4 rotors and

What for? Chances are they didn't need it.

Again why? Who's telling you all this 'resurfacing' needs to be done?

Of course not! Their bottom line needs you!

What for? What's the need for all this rotor turning business? Never turn Honda rotors, it's not worth it. If they're bad enough to really need turning ( grooved more than 1/8 inch) replace them.

And I'll bet not one of them was necessary!

Yeah, somebody is telling you your rotors need turning when they don't.

Do you race? Do you drive down steep mountain grades? If not you don't need slotted rotors. You need an honest mechanic, and I don't mean a dealer.

Yeah. Next time you're told your rotors need turning, spit in the guys eye and go look for an honest mechanic.
See also: http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#brakes
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Um, ouch. :-)
I should note that all of these save the last one were done for free....so no real skin off my back until recently.
Thanks for the reply. As for WHY I have them done - vibration when braking is the symptom...begins at higher speeds, and as time goes on becomes more noticeable even at lower speeds. I have *Zero* problems outside of braking. Turning / replacing the rotors has resolved the problem every time so far.....but just for a little while. I realize replacement may be better than turning, but if replacements only last the same mileage - why bother with the expense? My most recent visit for tires included brake inspection, including a nice long discussion with the mechanic who could find nothing wrong outside of the rotors, and measurements on the rotors confirmed that they did indeed need to be turned (Sorry I don't remember the numbers). The dealer supposedly checked each time as well, and came to the same conclusion.
I am trying to determine WHY I should spit in their faces - can you give me a reason why I might be experiencing these symptoms, since I have even brake pad wear, and why turning the rotors would resolve it temporarily ? I should note I have heard in the past that improperly torqued lug nuts can cause issues with rotors - I always loosen and re-torque my wheels after any service visit to 80 ft/lbs. I also have not noted any rust, etc., when mounting the tire that I would expect to cause a vibration. I also don't race, and I live in the flatlands. :-)
Thanks!
- Mike
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By then,the warping may have already started.

Does this always happen on the same wheel? (maybe a wheel has unlevel surfaces on the inside that mates to the rotor,warping it) Maybe the problem moves as you rotate wheels? Do you tighten the lugs in a cross-pattern,or just go around,one after another? Do you snug them down first,then torque,or just tighten to torque spec? Perhaps one stud has thread damage,throwing off the torque reading?
I believe that rotors are only able to be turned once,then they get too thin to be turned again.(legally) Some here are of the opinion that turning the rotors even once makes them prone to warping. Warping would cause vibration when braking.
--
Jim Yanik
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Count me in that group who suspects rotors that have been turned are more susceptible to warping. I don't have any evidence but I did stop having rotors turned as soon as I could afford to. My belief is that the reason for minimum thickness being less than new thickness is to allow for wear. Also, I think rotors that have been turned because they were warped will re-warp because of stresses formed during braking when they were warped - it seems likely any rotor that doesn't brake evenly will also heat unevenly during braking.
Somebody recently directed me to a website that had a section on brake rotor warping. It made a lot of sense, pointing out that what we speak of as "warping" isn't lateral runout, where the rotor is bent, but is variation in the thickness of the rotor as it rotates. Just like the acceleration bumps on a dirt road, the thickened areas get worse as time goes on.
Disclaimer - I am not an expert on this, these are my own beliefs.
Mike
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I had all my 4 rotors turned and had no problems, but I was smart and used OEM pads, not aftermarket crap. But it was done on the car using a lathe, not off the car. Those one take way too much out of rotor to be useable.


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OEM is really the way to go. The last time I changed pads on my Volvo I used OEM pads and BAP rotors. The rotors are more seriously worn than the pads now! The original rotors made it nearly 200K miles with less wear than that.
Mike
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"hlshadow" wrote: > Hi all - > > I have an 02 TL-S, purchased at ~20K miles, now at 64K miles. > When I bought > the car (CarMax), the rotors needed to be resurfaced - done by > CarMax. I > had them turned again at ~30K miles by the dealer, then all 4 > rotors and > pads replaced by Acura for free under a Service Bulletin at > ~40K miles (the > bulletin was for the pads - and included new pads and rotors - > WOOT!). I > had these turned again at ~50K, right before the warranty > expired. At 60K, > they needed it again, so I took it back to the dealer hoping > they would > resolve this once and for all as this is an "ongoing" problem > - no dice. > The dealer was sympathetic, and forwarded the request to > Corporate Acura who > told me over the phone after a 3 day wait that they will not > warranty rotors > outside of the 50K coverage, period. So I waited a few > months, and just had > them turned again with the purchase of new tires at 64K. That > is FIVE times > in ~44K miles (20, 30, 40, 50, 64). > > I really don't have a problem with the 50K issue as I know > this is > considered a "wear item", and the pads are wearing evenly - so > I don't > believe this is an issue with the calipers (but looking for > guidance). Is > there anything outside of my driving style that could explain > the problems I > am having with these? This was my last "turn" on this set > before they need > to be replaced again (in 10K miles), and I will likely go with > slotted or > drilled for my next set to hopefully alleviate the problem. > I'm 35 years > old and drive around most of the time with a 2 year old in the > back seat - I > don't think I would really consider myself an aggressive > driver. My > previous cars were a '91 Integra, '87 200SX, '88 Legend, and > '99 Honda > Accord......I never had this type of problem with any of > these. I also > know the TLS has oversized rotors compared to the regular TL > anyway, and I > would expect a longer life from these things - everyone I talk > to (including > the dealer) says this is not normal, but say everything else > looks OK and > the brakes seem to stop just fine - no pulling, etc., when > braking. > > Any ideas ? > > Thanks! > > - Mike
If the dealer does not install a generous amount of brake grease on the slider pins, the pads could be staying clenched against the rotor causing abnormal wear rates.
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