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Yes you did. You stated that 2 flat-six engines could have two different numbers of cylinders, and I corrected you. But of course, you snipped that correction.

No it isn't. The 2.5-litre, turbocharged Flat-4 is the only option in their top spec Impreza and Forester models and sits right alongside the H6 in the Legacy and Outback models. It produces as much horsepower as the H6, with a good deal more torque, a flatter powerband and makes peak power at lower RPMs. It's also priced nearly identcally to the H6 models in the Legacy and Outback lineups. The H6's only advantage is it's smoother delivery and lower noise, which may appeal to more "mature" buyers. Visiting a website now and again may help you, Ghee boy. Did I ever tell you I once knew a miniature Poodle named Ghee? Much like yourself, he was timid and afraid of confrontation. Unlike you, it had nothing to do with his seemingly endless need to fabricate stories.
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Byron wrote:

Then again, there are some modern weirdos, like the SAAB/Opel 3.0 V6 that was used in the Saturn LS2/L300 - it has a 54-degree angle. Go figure.
-- Mike Smith
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no there about 60 degrees or something close to this
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Tha Ghee wrote:

No, they're not. 60 degrees is the optimal angle for balancing, but for packaging reasons (i.e. not as tall) 90 degrees is much more common, at least in American cars. The Audi/VW 2.8 V6 is 90 degrees, as are the newer Audi V6 engines. I believe the Honda 3.0 and 3.5 V6es are also 90 degrees.
-- Mike Smith
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with
no you're incorrect, the 2.8 is 15 degree, most are V-6s are 60 degree, the only ones are GM Ford, the big 3. the 3.0 and 3.5 are 60 degree www.honda.com
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Tha Ghee wrote:

No, the *VR6* is 15 degrees. The *V6* is not. The 2.8L engine used in the VW Passat and previous-gen Audi A4 and A6 is a 90-degree *V6*, not the *VR6* used in the GTI. *Different engine*.

Um, given that they are the largest auto manufacturers in the world (not just the US - the *world*), that would mean that *most* V6es are 90-degree.

That may be, but GM and Ford make *lots* more engines than Honda worldwide.
-- Mike Smith
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90-degree.
worldwide.
if GM engines are so great way are they buying V-6s from Honda, if you add up all the 60s vs. 90 I think the 60s will number more. also GM is starting to make more 60 and I-6s so I think that the 90 is not in vogue.
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The ONLY I6 manufactured by GM for North America is the 4.2 litre motor in the Trailblazer/Envoy/Ascender/Rainier. Get your shit straight.
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Tha Ghee wrote:

Who said GM engines are great? Is this some tactic of yours, changing the subject when the argument doesn't go your way? I never said GM engines were great, I said they make 90-degree V6 engines. Period.

Prove it. The #1 and #2 auto manufacturers in the world (GM and Ford) make predominantly 90-degree V6es.

Again, don't change the subject. I never said that 90-degree V6es were "in vogue". I said that more of them are made than 60-degree. Period. Quit changing the subject.
-- Mike Smith
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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:29:28 -0400, Mike Smith

Cripes, he's been doing that since Day One. As soon as he's caught out in one of his "mistruths" (<= being kind here) he immediately switches to a different "mistruth". Every time. You scamps are always one mistruth behind him...
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You're a dipshit. VW's 2.8 VR6 is 15 degrees. Audi's 2.8 V6, found in the B5 A4 and B5/B5.5 Passat are both 90 degress.
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B5 A4 and B5/B5.5 Passat are both 90 degress.
he just said 2.8 so then were both correct dumazz, buy you won admission.
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No, HE was correct. He was making reference to Audi's 90-degree V6 and you misunderstood him, probably due to the fact that you know NOTHING.
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Tha Ghee wrote:

No, I did *not* say just "2.8", I said "2.8 V6". If I had meant "2.8 VR6", I would have *said* "2.8 VR6". V6 != VR6. Get it? Were you born this dumb or do you have to work at it?
-- Mike Smith
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writes

on
you do realize that a V-12 is nothing more than 2 I-6s attached at a proper angle to quell vibration.
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What the hell does the engine's firing sequence have to do with smoothness?

What kind of B.S. generality is that? WHICH V12? The MB one? The BMW one? The Lamborghini one?

The W12 uses the same 10 degree angle that the VR engines do.

I believe MB's V12 uses balance shafts, actually.

Again, a generality. MB's V12 outperforms the W12 but it's fitted with Twin Turbochargers so what do you expect?

It doesn't matter how you worded it, you were wrong.
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Err, everything!
Smoothness is all down to the movement of the pistons relative to each other. They need to fire in a sequence such that their momentum relative to each other balances out.
--
Toby

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I'm having a fit of dumbshit and not following. I'm well aware of how the standard combustion driven engine operates but I'm not sure as to how a 4-cylinder with a 1-2-3-4 firing order could be any more or less smooth than one with a 1-3-4-2 firing order, or any other variation. Beyond that, I've ridden in a W12 Pheaton and found it to be quite smooth, so I find Ghee's claims (as usual) to be obnoxious.
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Steve Grauman wrote:

The firing order will have an effect on the frequency distribution of the vibration, thus affecting the peak intensity which is what will be perceived by the human. A 1-3-4-2 order should, hypothetically, produce vibrations of twice the frequency and half the amplitude that would be generated by a 1-2-3-4 order. (This is one of the reasons why 1-3-4-2 or 1-3-2-4 are more commounly used than 1-2-3-4.)

Indeed. Car & Driver's recent writeup of the W12 Phaeton uses words like "completely silent", "won't even realize it's running", and "no vibration transmitted through the steering column" or some such. That's low enough in vibration for me.
-- Mike Smith
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Indeed. I've worked a fair bit in the production plant at Crewe where the Bentley Continental GT is manufactured, and those things can really sneak up on you, they're so quiet.
--
Toby

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