86 5KT Clackity Clack!

Dear Gurus:
I am driving an 1986 5000 turbo with 81,000 miles on it. Just within the last 3-400 miles, the car has developed a rather loud lifter/valve clatter.
The card is due for an oil change and I wondered if anyone has used any of the "miracle" oil additives with any success. Looking for product endorsements good and bad. Please share your experiences.
Thanks in advance,
Drew Bodeen
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Drew,
I'm not sure about the "clackity clack" aspect, but I recommend using Valvoline MaxLife in the car at your next oil change. * I used this in mine for the first time around 6000 miles ago (91, 200QT, 149,000 miles now). I noticed an immediate improvement in power, the engine runs cooler (based on oil temp gauge, the engine temp is getting fixed tomorrow along with quite a few other things), and I went from 24 mpg to 25 (not huge, but, it is an improvement). Also, it doesn't use a drop of oil after 3000 miles (as a slight disclaimer to this, I never bothered to check the oil before I started my new job {see below} so I don't know if this is new with this oil, or if it's always been that way). With the first oil change with MaxLife, I also did a Valvoline engine treatment, this may help with the "clackity clack", it depends on what's causing it. The other high mileage oils and treatments may do the same, but I have no experience with them.
Hope it helps Bill
* Just to be completely upfront here, I am a manager of a Valvoline Instant Oil Change. Started around 4 months ago which is why I never bothered to check my oil, before then I came from a completely different line of work. I know this can be considered a conflict of interest, or self promotion, or whatever, but except for those of you that live in the southern New Hampshire area and don't do your own oil changes, it really doesn't benefit me so please keep the flames to a minimum :)

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Drew, You aren't, by chance, using a Fram oil filter are you? A clatter like that sounds like oil starvation, and although the charts at your local FLAPS (friendly local auto parts store)will tell you that there is a Fram filter for your car, there have been a number of MC-engined cars on Audifans that have been damaged when the filter media in that Fram filter collapses, gets sucked into the engine and causes oil starvation. My '87 had a much slower onset of valve tapping. I use Mobil 1 15W50 and at the last oil change I put in some engine flush stuff from FLAPS, ran it for 15 minutes and then drained it out. Has much quiter lifters now. I've heard of using Marvel Mystery Oil, and some have had good results with ATF - just don't add these and take your car out for a spirited run - the engine flush instructions were to let the engine idle only. You might also consider that an exhaust manifold leak will give you a ticking sound as well. Cheers! Steve Sears 1987 Audi 5kTQ 1980 Audi 5k 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)
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Bill/Steve/Doug:
Thanks for your replies. Doug, it is my lifters that are making the "clickety clack" sound. And Steve you are right on about the Fram oil filter. I used one of the new "easy grip" filters last oil change. (Is this common with all Fram filters for other cars?) This is alarming. My car before the last oil change sounded perfect. Any idea how much damage the "you can pay know or you can pay me later" filter inflicted on my lifters? Needless to say I will not use the Fram filter again. Bill, thanks for your honesty. I have heard many good things about Maxlife oil and thought about giving it a try this oil change. Has anyone used Lucas oil products? It is an additive that replaces a quart of oil and supposed to reduce "dry" startups significantly.
Thanks again,
Drew
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Steve:
I have been a long time lurker and have enjoyed your many replys to other questions. I wondered if I could pick your brain? Are there any other "tendencies" or worldly knowledge that I should be aware of in relation to 5kt's? I am aware that most 1980's Audi's develope lifter noise at some time. ( I had an '84 4kQ) The motors (baring Fram Damage) are very durable and see 200k milage with general upkeep. Occasional electrical hic-ups. (temp guage/window regulators) After hearing Fram, I look to you for any other "Need to know" information. I intend to drive the wheels of this car for it is very good shape inside and out. It has been very dependable and fun to drive.
Drew
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Steve:
After the laundry list of potenital failures on questionsthe orignal purchase. I know the car is very well built, solid performance, cabin is very quiet, and a pleaseure to drive. Plus I got my cream puff for only $600. A Lexus service writer bought it off a trade in and rove it to work for 3 yrs and it sat for 2 yrs after he was given a daily driver. As for the list, I have already experienced the joys of door handle failure. The cable splice issue hasn't surfaced yet (should I be proactive?). I will keep my eyes out for a set of Euro headlights. I have already replace bulbs in the dashboard/instrument panel. The headlight switch melting is a concern, I like to use my flash to pass often. The car begs to cruise around 80-85 mph. The brake accumulator is one to keep my eye on. Thanks for the heads up. I just replaced the master and slave brake clynders last month. Power steering pump has been good so far. Ido use the proper hydraulic fluid (the stuff is expensive). So far the Michelin man appears to be fine however I have noticed a whistle when the car is in the 3000 rpm range and up. May need to due more investigating. You were right about the rear brake/parking brake seizing. I need to replace the calipers. I don't have the Bentley manuals however I do have a brother who turns wrenches a dealership that sells new audi/porsche/MB/volkswagen etc. I have gotten to quiz the Audi tech on more than one occaison. Plus my bro helps me with the hard fixes. I will check out the Audifans quattro list. I am in the slat belt and surprisingly the car is really in great shape so far. Why don't other car makers galvinize? And no noise in the rear yet! so far so good. The headliner did come down and is currently pasted in place (looks horrible) I intend to see a local headliner shop about replacement. Seat heater doesn't apply since I don't have one. The first thing I replaced on the car was the afterrun coolant pump. Which by the way I now have two extra pumps laying around. (got a box of parts deal from my bro's work place). The rad fan will get my attention soon, the fuse is a great idea. Timing belt and all other belts/fluids have been changed right when I bought the car. I was aware of most of the websites that you listed and will check out the two I am not familiar with. Steve thanks again for all your insight and experiences. So far the car has been a pleasure to drive and hasn't cost much to own and operate.
I was currious, how long have you owned your 87 5ktq? I have heard of many people getting 200k plus miles on the cars with very little problems. What has been your experience?
Drew Bodeen
86 5000T
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Drew, Wow. What a car for the price of 1 month of a lease of an A4.....no too shabby - I wouldn't question the logic of owning it. An easy check for the cable splice is to check the voltage at the underhood post while the car is running, and then at the battery - the difference is somewhat due to the splice. Relaying the headlights is a good idea - Eurolights or not - it takes the high current away from the column switch connections - which melt and cause problems. The whistle may be a leak around / (or missing) idle screw on the throttle body. Other car makers do some sort of galvanising - GM uses a phosphate dip of the welded body of the vehicle - the galvanising on the Type 44 involved a galvanising of the sheet steel, and some understanding of how to treat the edge of a stamped part post-stamping and how to properly spot weld galvanized parts. The problem with corrosion is that it lurks in hard to reach areas which are hard to coat with a coating applied after the assorted parts of the body have been assembled, but are "simple" to do if the protection is already there. As for longevity - well, my '87 has passed 333,333 km recently, and I expect it will go many more. I've only owned it for about 3 years, and it was _VERY_ abused when I got it - I should have shopped around a bit more, but nevertheless it's still a good car for the money I paid for it, both in purchase and repairs. Cheers! Steve Sears 1987 Audi 5kTQ 1980 Audi 5k 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

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Steve:
Thanks for sharing your wisdom. I am going to check on "the whistle" tonight. It is very encouraging to hear that your car keeps rolling up the miles. I am approaching 90k. Looks like a have some catching up to due!
thanks again,
Drew Steve Sears wrote in message ...

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Unfortunately, the odds of finding them in the US is slim to none. You either get a set of *new* ones from somebody like Blaufergngen or you stumble on a cooperative *European* (*Not* UK! - those are the 'wrong-sided' lights!) junkyard crawler who can send you a set. There are the occasional owners here who yanked them out before trashing the car. Be sure you know *which* '5000' yours is. Your turbo (CS and CS Quattro) is a Euro *200* (known by the same name here after 1988) and has lights different than the *100* (S and S Quattro - also getting the Euro name in '88). The good news is, the grilles/lights don't seem to have changed from your '86 model until at least '92, so there are lots of candidates.

I think your concern may be misplaced. IME, the headlight switch melts when there are auxiliary lights (fogs) added to the same circuit. Audi, in its wisdom, uses *no* relays in the headlight system and runs *all* the current through the switch, so additional lights produce additional heat there, melting the contacts into the thermoplastic. The brief blast from a flash-to-pass won't generally bother it much. Just don't hold it on continuously. Another way to avoid the problem is to wire any additional lights with relays and (fused) power directly from the battery or fusebox. You also don't want to use higher-powered bulbs in the headlights without taking similar precautions.

There's a 5-legged rubber vacuum junction 'monster' about the size of your hand residing about midway along the valve cover. All 5 ports are different sizes, making a cobbled together collection of fittings difficult (Don't ask me how I know!) and making the purchase of a new part quite attractive. This thing likes to crack on the bottom (where you can't see it, naturally - actually, it's no doubt from years of exposure to engine heat). It can be briefly and temporarily fixed with a rubber 'gunk' and tape patch - until your new one comes in. Don't bother with a junkyard part except as a temporary backup.

Not too bad - about $185 from Blau, IIRC.

Get them. They'll pay for themselves quickly. The good news is, your set is the two-volume one that's cheaper (not much) than the 3-vol. '88-'92 set.

Audi had a lot of making up to do. Ever see a Fox or a pre-1980 100?

It will come. It's an easy fix with an overpriced part. It's not really so dangerous, but more embarrassment ...

Well, my '90 turbo only has about 139K, but my 10-valve I-5 engines in 3 different 4KQs have lasted a minimum of 232K, with one going 266K. Never had to open any of them up. The clutches broke, but all had great engines as they were hauled or traded away. -- C.R. Krieger (Weaning myself from Quattros with an X-Type)
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Thanks for the Advice C.R. Glad to hear that the inline 5 has lots of life in them. The 5000 series are very solid, well built cars. Most domestic cars of this age a usually full of cancer and full of rattles.
Drew C.R. Krieger wrote in message ...

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CR, Actually, now that urS4's and the like are becoming more affordable, more enthusiasts are updating their rides - I bought a set of 100 eurolights from the local wrecking yard (Toronto area) for something like 50 or 60 bucks each. In the last year there has been at least 2 other cars at the yard with the same lights. Although I haven't installed them yet, the only change needed is the grille and the plastic chromed trim on top of the bumper. Apparently the cap that fits on the back of the light housing needs to be modified slightly (on the passenger side I believe) - trimming one of the vents - something that was already done on the set I got. I'm presently looking for 4.2 litre V8 parts - the front sway bar is larger than the '87 5ktq one, there is a rear sway bar that was not installed on the '87 5ktq, and, the hood/bumpers/fenders (oooh, flared fenders...) can be swapped. Yeah, like it won't all end up collecting dust in my workshop like the eurolights....... Cheers! Steve Sears 1987 Audi 5kTQ - now with "1988 Olympic Edition" sport interior!!! 1980 Audi 5k 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)
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