993 vs. Audi S4 and/or S6

Hi all,
I've got some questions regarding the general driveability of a porsche 911 compared to an Audi S4 or S6. I know it sounds stupid but sometimes the
biological clock of a special wife can make a man get stupid thoughts. :-) I'm thinking of getting a more family oriented car but still want to have a fun sports car. I like German cars and the 993 has been a kick. In fact, it's so fun I'm not sure I would sell it even if it makes sense!
My questions are this: have any of you driven an audi s4 avant or s6 wagon? How is the body roll, stiffness, etc when compared to the Porsche? Does either of them have anything that compares to winding out 2nd gear on a freeway onramp in the Porsche? How are the brakes? My wife wants a kickass sports car with cupholders and room for a run to the Costco (local warehouse store). I don't really want a full blooded SUV like an X5 or Cayenne...but, a real sporty station wagon seems like a possibility.
I drove an S6 last summer but haven't found an s4 avant lately to test.
Anyone out there have experience with late model Audi s-model wagons and care to share thoughts? I know the Porsche is the driving car but I'm wondering how much of a tradeoff the sport wagons are...
Thanks,
-dave -- David Glenn
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On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:27:30 -0700, David Glenn [MS] wrote:

I doubt you're going to get the 911 feel in any wagon, but if you're going to get close, it'll either be in the s6 avant, or the bmw 540iT. Unfortunately I never got to drive the s6, but a family member recently got a 540iT with the sports package and it is one of the most fun cars I've driven. She got the auto, but I think it also comes with a manual. I'd say head out to the dealers and drive them both. But beware about the 540 -- bmw is redesigning the 5 series next year and many people don't like them as much.
-Aaron
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Why not the RS6 Avant? Ah, unless you're in the US, where you can only get the Saloon (although there are reports of at least one RS6 Avant having been privately imported and federalised - total cost $120k!)
There seem to be a number of 911 owners in the UK who have swapped their porsche for an RS6 and are perfectly satisfied. I've never driven a 911 but I'm very happy with my RS6 Avant.
--
Peter Bell - snipped-for-privacy@bellfamily.org.uk

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David,

wagon?
Being used to a 911 you won΄t be happy neither with the S6 nor the stock S4. I drive a modified S4 avant (B5, 2000 model) with upgraded suspension, brakes and engine which gets very close to my ideal of a car. I wasn΄t very happy with the stock version too, the engine was too lazy at all revs, the brakes faded too much when hot, loosing a dangerous lot of force. The suspension upgrade (lowered and stiffed) brought a tremendous amount of additional stability, going 160 MPH with that car is like sitting in the living room, coming along with excellent handling when cornering fast. That car would be close to the kick ass sports car you΄ve mentioned (>350hp, 0-60 in 4.9 sec, top speed 180 MPH) and passing some of the "real" sports cars and pulling away off them on the higway caused a lot of long faces until today I guess ;-) After having done these modifications, I think it is the best car I ever had, although you have to take care of some durability aspects, like allowing to cool down the loaders before turning off. BTW: I still have the first clutch (75000 miles on the clock)... Lets consider it to be like a 911 with a large cargo bay.
I also drove the S6 auto for a few days, but was far away from feeling like being in a sports car either. The car weights too much for the power provided and isn΄t that athletic one would think of. Suspension also is too smooth but will make a very nice car for cruising of course. The backseaters will be grateful having additional amount of room for their legs compared to the S4 , cargo area is more than sufficient in both cars.
just my 2 cents!
cheers Bernhard
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Thanks Bernhard, that's good to hear. I was looking on the web for modifications one could do to the S6. The S4 wagon looks good but I need to go sit in the back seat and see how much room the back has compared to the S6.
Thanks for all the info,
-dave

S4.
very
That
0-60
like
too
legs
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911
a
wagon?
warehouse
Cayenne...but,
David
A lot will depend on how you drive your car. If you're near the limits on the 993 (I'll eat my hat if you are) then you will not match that in any other car very easily. If you drive like most people do on the road, an S4 is more likely to match the 993 than the larger S6. There's lots you can do to modify the Audis as there are some great tuning companies around. You should also look at the BMW M3 and M5 as driving preferences are such a personal thing and they are also great cars.
--
Kind Regards
Christopher Roberts
  Click to see the full signature.
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Test

:-)
have
kickass
do
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Hi. I would definitely not think twice about going for a BMW M5. It is a bit heavy but has enough power to match that. You have a lot of room. M5 definitely beats any other option. Altough the Audi's are more flexible when it comes to modifications. But with ~400 hp on the M5 maybe you will not need any mods. Its handling is superb. I have never driven a 993 but would not be surprised if the M5 matched it in performance. (M3 has better acceleration and braking but is smaller and has less hp).
David Glenn [MS] wrote:

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most porbably true. but for what he is looking for, this in my opinion is the best replacement that will give him a family car and a nice sports luxury. he can have his whole family on the track along with their luggage! (i would not recommmend it though!)
Steve Grauman wrote:

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<< he can have his whole family on the track along with their luggage! (i would not recommmend it though!) >>
An RS6 Avant would be even better, or an RS4, or an RS2. Just a shame none of them are avaliable to us in the U.S. Although I hear it's fairly easy for someone experianced to do an "RS2 conversion" to the old 5 cylinder engine in the 90, a 90 Avant with an RS2 style turbo engine would be quite a sleeper.
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On 10 Jul 2003 05:09:58 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Steve Grauman) wrote:

The RS6s are here in the US! I saw one at Fred Baker (located near Cleveland, OH). Of course, it was sold already, and was about $86k USD. What an awesome machine...
Elroy 2000 S4
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... but not available in the Avant version.
--
Peter Bell - snipped-for-privacy@bellfamily.org.uk

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<< The RS6s are here in the US! I saw one at Fred Baker (located near Cleveland, OH). Of course, it was sold already, and was about $86k USD. What an awesome machine... >>
$85-$88k, fewer than 1,000 imported, no Avant body. I was talking about the Avant.
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On 11 Jul 2003 06:14:23 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Steve Grauman) wrote:

Yes you were...my bad! =)
Elroy 2000 S4
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<< Yes you were...my bad! =) >>
=P
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I don't know where you're located, but a 993 holds it value really well over here, in a couple of years a used E46 M3 will cost about the same as a 993 i recon. right know used E46 M3's are 40 to 50k euro, 993's are 30 to 40k euro's

sorry, but if you are talking about "M3, M5, S6/RS6, WRX STi, or EVO", then E46 is the one i think about
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<< I don't know where you're located, but a 993 holds it value really well over here >>
Where I'm at in So. Cal. it's a double edged sword. Porsches tend to hold very good value, but the market out here is oversaturated with them. I was told that Porsche sells more cars in So. Cal. than they do anywhere else in the world, including Germany. In any case, used C2s with reasonable mileage can be had for *about* 45k (C2S models run a little more) where the BMW dealers want close to $60k for new M3s. The argument is irrelvant anyway, because I was talking about sports sedans vs. the 993, and the E46 M3 is not avaliable as a sedan.
<< in a couple of years a used E46 M3 will cost about the same as a 993 i recon >>
You reckon wrong, I figure. The 993s will continue to lose value (especially seeing as the units being driven around are going to have increased mileage in a few years), the M3 will too, but it started this comparo as a new car, rather than as a used car.
<< sorry, but if you are talking about "M3, M5, S6/RS6, WRX STi, or EVO", then E46 is the one i think about >>
If you'd bothered to read the entire post, you would have noticed that I was comparing the 993 to SPORTS SEDANS. A sedan, by mandate of definition, must have 4 doors. The E46 M3 is only avaliable with 2 doors. In any case the E46 M3 is only barely on par with the less expensive Porsche, a more refined machine that I still believe will beat an E46 M3 around a track.
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if you read the first posting that actually started this thread, this guy was asking about a *wagon*, not a sedan. and yeah I know the M3 isn't available as a wagon either...
anyway, if you think the 993c2 is better on a track than a +/- 8 years more modern machine with a superior engine and a superior drivetrain layout, so be it, I don't really give a damn
I reckon he should get an rs4 anyway...
-- Dave
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<< if you read the first posting that actually started this thread, this guy was asking about a *wagon*, not a sedan. and yeah I know the M3 isn't available as a wagon either... >>
The argument didn't arise at the beginning of this thread. The argument arose when someone other than the originator of this thread posted a messge, to which I replied that there isn't a *sports sedan* on the market competant to match a 993 C2 on a track. If this timeline is to confusing for you, please refrian from furthur posting.
<< anyway, if you think the 993c2 is better on a track than a +/- 8 years >>
Production of the 993 ended in late 1997, and the model (which had a very short lifespan) had gotten a fair number improvments since it's introduction (it was introduced in late' 93' if memory serves me).
<< more modern machine with a superior engine and a superior drivetrain layout, so be it, I don't really give a damn >>
If you honestly believe that the engine in the M3 is superior to that in the 993, then you're deluded. As far as layout goes, I'm not sure you're really in any position to call the 911's layout anything less than superior. Seeing as a 993 would match or beat an E46 M3 on any track, and a 996 would easily leave an E46 M3 on any track, it's fairly obvious to those of us living in the real world that the 911's RR layout is working quite well. And I don't really give a damn if you give a damn, your self deluded opinion based in a world of apparent BMW bias is of no consequence to me.
<< I reckon he should get an rs4 anyway.. >>
A model (based on his original postings) that would be out of his price range, and was only sold in Europe. Good advice.
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whatever, I was talking about the M3 coupe, I thought I made myself clear on that already

I guess I'm deluded then ... some respectable automotive magazines with me then

in the real world it's a matter of physics actually...

lol, I don't own a BMW and probably never will, I have absolutely no preference towards them. I would actually be more likely to buy a Porsche than a BMW... I'm just being realistic, I don't see the 911 as some 'holy car that cannot be beaten on a track by an M3 a Viper or anything on this planet'

hmm, I don't remember him mentioning price class/location?
anyway, what's the deal with this hostility? I just pointed out (in a friendly way) that M3's are kicking 993 butt on our Belgian tracks...
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