A/C vs climate control. me thinks 1:0

I like the simplicity of A/C setups over climate controls (esp dual units).
Firstly you get mechanical wheels to adjust air flow and temp and, secondly, you don't have to guess what happens if it's
21C outside and you have the temp set to 22C.
Does it warm up the air if I shut off A/C switching to vent mode? I don't want it to.
I don't have to guess in 18-22C outside range with A/C systems: just turn off a/c and turn the temp all the way to the low setting vary the fan speed to taste in that 4C/7F range.
Any climate control affictionados care to comment how all the complexity is supposed to pay off?
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It always "pays off" for those that pay for it. Human nature. I wouldn't pay for it, because I'm KISS. Bells and whistles.
--
Vic

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In article <01e51afa-349a-4b50-a3eb-

Well I notice I don't fiddle with the controls as much with a system where you just set the temperature in degrees and forget it.
So I suppose that could mean you are paying a bit more attention to your driving - a tad more safety.
Although for myself that does not matter because I only fiddle with controls in the car when it is safe to do so (it is safe to take my eyes away from the road for a moment).
I know inexperienced drivers will take their eyes off the road for several seconds (rather than just one second) and a LOT of stuff can happen in those several seconds if you are going fast.
Then it is common for one person to prefer a cooler or warmer temperature than another. So I suppose a dual temperature system could make for a more pleasant trip in some cases.
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Pleasant enough when they work correctly, but being more complicated, they are more prone to failure and more expensive to work on.
Our Avalon has this system, it is pleasant, and we have never had a problem with it BUT our previous Buick was a PITA.
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AD wrote:

Never had A/C of any description, don't want it. All my cars have wing windows and mechanical footwell vents including the convertible. meh.
Girlfriend loves her electronic and complex system.
Suit yourself; Choice is good.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
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On 05/25/2012 08:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:

i'm with you on that. i once drove through the mojave desert at noon to las vegas in july. no a/c, open windows.
don't get me wrong, it was good and toasty, and you had to drink a lot, but that's what summer and deserts are all about. girlie bleated and complained the whole freakin' way though. she never would have made it west in a conestoga wagon.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum

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I wouldn't like to be without A/C on a hot day when stuck in a 2 hour jam on the motorway.
I like the C/C but have never really used basic A/C in a car.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
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Meh, I always thought that climate control was something of a frivolous gimmick until one day I realized that I was always comfortable in my old 944, and hadn't touched the HVAC controls in months. As opposed to every other car I've had where it seems like I'm always fiddling with them.
Something else that car had that I really liked and wished every car had was the heated outside mirrors. Worth their weight in gold in the wintertime.
nate
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wrote:

Climate control worked well in my 2002 Odyssey. It sucks in my 2007 VW. I'm a split vote.
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On 25/05/2012 6:42 PM, MG wrote:

That's because it's a European car -- bad electricals. No one is ever going to convince me that a European car (Germans included) is higher quality than a Japanese car.
You can really tell a good quality car when you take it out into a winter of Canada, not by driving them around in the stable climate of southern California. Good quality cars will not have strange electrical problems between the winter and the summer. My own 2000 Subaru Outback is a Japanese car made in America, so it's showing signs of a hybrid American/Japanese quality.
    Yousuf Khan
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I don't think this is a better/worse dichotomy.
A German car, traditionally, (of course there are exceptions to the rule) is designed more with serviceability in mind, and will require more frequent and extensive maintenance. However, if you keep up on the recommended maintenance and repair anything faulty as soon as it occurs, the vehicle will likely last until the chassis rusts in two. (Apparently my mom's old '86 Golf was spotted on the road again, after being bought out of the junkyard that the guy that bought it from my mom sent it to after a couple years...)
A Japanese car will likely require less attention during the first 150-200K miles of its life. Then, at some point, it will begin nickel and diming you to death. It'll also be a pain in the arse to work on, requiring flexible forearms and dainty hands.
Now those are gross generalizations, and I don't think that they're necessarily even true anymore as even the Germans have finally realized that very few people keep their cars past 150K miles. However, it certainly was true in the past and was a big part of my penchant for German cars. Growing up in Pennsylvania to a family of mostly German ancestry, the "fix it forever" mentality rubbed off on me so obviously the German philosophy of cars appealed to me. (the "Pennsylvania Dutch" are really Germans, you know, and their reputation for being frugal is probably matched only by the Scottish.) That, and German cars are just fun to drive.
To the exact subject at hand, I had no problems whatsoever with the climate control on my 944, and in fact the only real problems I had with it were a bad ECU (common,) a CV joint (wear item) and a bent wheel that nobody could diagnose (I'll blame that one on incompetent mechanics. I eventually fixed it myself by purchasing a set of "known good" used wheels and tires and swapping them out one by one, not having access to my own balancer.) I'd probably still be driving it today if I didn't have a job with a company car.
nate
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On 05/29/2012 07:15 AM, N8N wrote:

??? so all those expensive special tools for jobs that on other cars simply require a couple of ordinary wrenches, is all about "serviceability"??? you're out of your freakin' mind.
<snip drivel>
> the Germans have finally

other way around big guy - the germans decided that they didn't /want/ you driving a car past 150k miles. less actually. i know this for fact because one of my materials professors was a consultant and helped them solve some very difficult "bathtub curve" lifetime limitation issues which they couldn't otherwise solve. to be clear, this was to design the rear of the tub /in/, not out as was previously the case. technically very difficult. [it costs more to manufacture, but it's worth it in increased sales.]

unusual
if that's not a "real problem", then getting beaten to death with a piece of 2x4 is merely getting a headache...

and yet a properly maintained honda joint will last 300+k miles...

no nate, that's down to you. 100%. diagnosis is simply measuring with a gauge while rotating. if you couldn't do that yourself [quite extraordinary for an "engineer"], then any shop not doing it chose not to because you're such a pain in the ass.
> I eventually fixed it myself by purchasing a set of "known

so they weren't bent, they were merely out of balance? you don't know what you're talking about. as usual.

yeah, that government job where incompetents get paid to be clueless and incapable, and waste time on usenet during office hours.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum

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On 29/05/2012 10:15 AM, N8N wrote:

Are you kidding?!? The exception to the rule is when a German car is _actually_ easily serviceable. Some current Mercedes and BMW's (don't know about Audis) have a cover over their engine bays to prevent you from servicing them.

Every car nickels and dimes you to death once they start getting on in age.
    Yousuf Khan
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On 06/01/2012 04:51 PM, Yousuf Khan wrote:

no, he's not kidding. just ignorant, inexperienced, and incapable of learning.

indeed. but nate couldn't recognize reality, let alone admit its existence, if it smacked him over the head with a herring.

german car's don't nickel and dime you, they gold and silver dollar you.

--
nomina rutrum rutrum

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My friend's jetta electric windows have a mind of their own, open and close when they think it is time... Second Yousuf's opinion.
Mercedes and BMW have had their share of electrical problems as well.
Yousuf Khan wrote:

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There's a door seal that is bad, I bet. Water is getting where it should not, which is a common problem with these.

This is because they put electronic gadgets on everything. The BMW electronics are actually very reliable, but you add ten times the amount of electronic crap on the car, even even reliable electronics are ten times less reliable. And Mercedes is even worse in that regard. Both also suffer from the typical German "why use one part when you can use two" philosophy as well. --scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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On 31/05/2012 9:38 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

My first -- and only -- German car I ever had was in the 80's, and even back then, it suffered from gadgetitis. And on top of that, they would wholesale change out every part in the car from one model year to the next, even if the car didn't change in appearance. So that guaranteed that all parts were extremely expensive, and not available in stock. After that car I said, goodbye to German cars. For those who think European cars are easy to service, then the days of the original cheap-as-cheese VW Beetle are long since passed, even the new Beetle is loaded with gadgets.
    Yousuf Khan
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I need different settings before and after the meal (higher before, lower after when body starts to produce much more heat that needs to be dissipated)
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On 25/05/2012 5:35 AM, AD wrote:

I've had climate control, and I've liked it, but I don't find much advantage to it over standard controls. But then again, I live in a country where the knob is usually placed at full-blast all of the time, whether it's full-blast heating or full-blast AC -- or full-blast turned off. Very little fiddling needed in between.
    Yousuf Khan
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