A/C vs climate control. me thinks 1:0

It always "pays off" for those that pay for it.  Human nature.
I wouldn't pay for it, because I'm KISS.
Bells and whistles.

--
Vic

In article <01e51afa-349a-4b50-a3eb-
5f8977694acf@q2g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>, isquat@gmail.com says...

Well I notice I don't fiddle with the controls as much with a system
where you just set the temperature in degrees and forget it.

So I suppose that could mean you are paying a bit more attention to your
driving - a tad more safety.

Although for myself that does not matter because I only fiddle with
controls in the car when it is safe to do so (it is safe to take my eyes
away from the road for a moment).

I know inexperienced drivers will take their eyes off the road for
several seconds (rather than just one second) and a LOT of stuff can
happen in those several seconds if you are going fast.

Then it is common for one person to prefer a cooler or warmer
temperature than another. So I suppose a dual temperature system could
make for a more pleasant trip in some cases.

Pleasant enough when they work correctly, but being more
complicated, they are more prone to failure and more expensive
to work on.

Our Avalon has this system, it is pleasant, and we have never
had a problem with it BUT our previous Buick was a PITA.

AD wrote:

Never had A/C of any description, don't want it. All my cars
have wing windows and mechanical footwell vents including
the convertible. meh.

Girlfriend loves her electronic and complex system.

Suit yourself; Choice is good.

--
Andrew Muzi
  <www.yellowjersey.org/>
  Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 05/25/2012 08:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:

i'm with you on that.  i once drove through the mojave desert at noon to
las vegas in july.  no a/c, open windows.

don't get me wrong, it was good and toasty, and you had to drink a lot,
but that's what summer and deserts are all about.  girlie bleated and
complained the whole freakin' way though.  she never would have made it
west in a conestoga wagon.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

I wouldn't like to be without A/C on a hot day when stuck in a 2 hour
jam on the motorway.

I like the C/C but have never really used basic A/C in a car.
--
(\__/)  M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

Meh, I always thought that climate control was something of a
frivolous gimmick until one day I realized that I was always
comfortable in my old 944, and hadn't touched the HVAC controls in
months.  As opposed to every other car I've had where it seems like
I'm always fiddling with them.

Something else that car had that I really liked and wished every car
had was the heated outside mirrors.  Worth their weight in gold in the
wintertime.

nate

Climate control worked well in my 2002 Odyssey.  It sucks in my 2007 VW.
I'm a split vote.

On 25/05/2012 6:42 PM, MG wrote:

That's because it's a European car -- bad electricals. No one is ever
going to convince me that a European car (Germans included) is higher
quality than a Japanese car.

You can really tell a good quality car when you take it out into a
winter of Canada, not by driving them around in the stable climate of
southern California. Good quality cars will not have strange electrical
problems between the winter and the summer. My own 2000 Subaru Outback
is a Japanese car made in America, so it's showing signs of a hybrid
American/Japanese quality.

    Yousuf Khan

I don't think this is a better/worse dichotomy.

A German car, traditionally, (of course there are exceptions to the
rule) is designed more with serviceability in mind, and will require
more frequent and extensive maintenance.  However, if you keep up on
the recommended maintenance and repair anything faulty as soon as it
occurs, the vehicle will likely last until the chassis rusts in two.
(Apparently my mom's old '86 Golf was spotted on the road again, after
being bought out of the junkyard that the guy that bought it from my
mom sent it to after a couple years...)

A Japanese car will likely require less attention during the first
150-200K miles of its life.  Then, at some point, it will begin nickel
and diming you to death.  It'll also be a pain in the arse to work on,
requiring flexible forearms and dainty hands.

Now those are gross generalizations, and I don't think that they're
necessarily even true anymore as even the Germans have finally
realized that very few people keep their cars past 150K miles.
However, it certainly was true in the past and was a big part of my
penchant for German cars.  Growing up in Pennsylvania to a family of
mostly German ancestry, the "fix it forever" mentality rubbed off on
me so obviously the German philosophy of cars appealed to me.  (the
"Pennsylvania Dutch" are really Germans, you know, and their
reputation for being frugal is probably matched only by the
Scottish.)  That, and German cars are just fun to drive.

To the exact subject at hand, I had no problems whatsoever with the
climate control on my 944, and in fact the only real problems I had
with it were a bad ECU (common,) a CV joint (wear item) and a bent
wheel that nobody could diagnose (I'll blame that one on incompetent
mechanics.  I eventually fixed it myself by purchasing a set of "known
good" used wheels and tires and swapping them out one by one, not
having access to my own balancer.)  I'd probably still be driving it
today if I didn't have a job with a company car.

nate

On 05/29/2012 07:15 AM, N8N wrote:

???  so all those expensive special tools for jobs that on other cars
simply require a couple of ordinary wrenches, is all about
"serviceability"???  you're out of your freakin' mind.


 > the Germans have finally

other way around big guy - the germans decided that they didn't /want/
you driving a car past 150k miles.  less actually.  i know this for fact
because one of my materials professors was a consultant and helped them
solve some very difficult "bathtub curve" lifetime limitation issues
which they couldn't otherwise solve.  to be clear, this was to design
the rear of the tub /in/, not out as was previously the case.
technically very difficult.  [it costs more to manufacture, but it's
worth it in increased sales.]



if that's not a "real problem", then getting beaten to death with a
piece of 2x4 is merely getting a headache...



and yet a properly maintained honda joint will last 300+k miles...



no nate, that's down to you.  100%.  diagnosis is simply measuring with
a gauge while rotating.  if you couldn't do that yourself [quite
extraordinary for an "engineer"], then any shop not doing it chose not
to because you're such a pain in the ass.


 > I eventually fixed it myself by purchasing a set of "known

so they weren't bent, they were merely out of balance?  you don't know
what you're talking about.  as usual.



yeah, that government job where incompetents get paid to be clueless and
incapable, and waste time on usenet during office hours.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

On 29/05/2012 10:15 AM, N8N wrote:

Are you kidding?!? The exception to the rule is when a German car is
_actually_ easily serviceable. Some current Mercedes and BMW's (don't
know about Audis) have a cover over their engine bays to prevent you
from servicing them.


Every car nickels and dimes you to death once they start getting on in age.

    Yousuf Khan

On 06/01/2012 04:51 PM, Yousuf Khan wrote:

no, he's not kidding.  just ignorant, inexperienced, and incapable of
learning.



indeed.  but nate couldn't recognize reality, let alone admit its
existence, if it smacked him over the head with a herring.



german car's don't nickel and dime you, they gold and silver dollar you.



--
nomina rutrum rutrum

My friend's jetta electric windows have a mind of their own, open and
close when they think it is time... Second Yousuf's opinion.

Mercedes and BMW have had their share of electrical problems as well.


Yousuf Khan wrote:

There's a door seal that is bad, I bet.  Water is getting where it should
not, which is a common problem with these.


This is because they put electronic gadgets on everything.  The BMW electronics
are actually very reliable, but you add ten times the amount of electronic crap
on the car, even even reliable electronics are ten times less reliable.  And
Mercedes is even worse in that regard.  Both also suffer from the typical
German "why use one part when you can use two" philosophy as well.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 31/05/2012 9:38 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

My first -- and only -- German car I ever had was in the 80's, and even
back then, it suffered from gadgetitis. And on top of that, they would
wholesale change out every part in the car from one model year to the
next, even if the car didn't change in appearance. So that guaranteed
that all parts were extremely expensive, and not available in stock.
After that car I said, goodbye to German cars. For those who think
European cars are easy to service, then the days of the original
cheap-as-cheese VW Beetle are long since passed, even the new Beetle is
loaded with gadgets.

    Yousuf Khan

I need different settings before and after the meal (higher before,
lower after when body starts to produce much more heat
that needs to be dissipated)

On 25/05/2012 5:35 AM, AD wrote:

I've had climate control, and I've liked it, but I don't find much
advantage to it over standard controls. But then again, I live in a
country where the knob is usually placed at full-blast all of the time,
whether it's full-blast heating or full-blast AC -- or full-blast turned
off. Very little fiddling needed in between.

    Yousuf Khan