audi and kaipola ski jump advertisiement - climbing an icy hill

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It's actually a lot of fun doing that!
We regularly used to take our Jeeps out to a local sand pit area before it closed that is challenging in the summer and run it in the winter.
It is a blast and our 4x4's can climb wicked slopes in snow. Way more than 37.5 degrees.
Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id !15147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

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this in rec.autos.driving on Wed, 18 Jan 2006 01:41:37 +0000:

38.66 degrees (assuming I did the trig right)...
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Cant be 80 degrees. That's absurd.
A quick Google found an interesting article: http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050308.004
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And the explains the problem:
" is hard to believe that, after quite literally scaling new heights, he has just parked his Atlas Grey Audi A6 4.2 quattro 47 metres off the ground at an angle of 37.5 degrees and that is approximately equivalent to an 80 percent gradient."
80%, not 80 degrees.
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Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
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In a given distance it rises 80% of that distance. Tomes
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Yes.
But the original poster said 80 *degrees*. He had clearly mistaken one for the other or heard about it from someone who'd been so mistaken.
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Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
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Tomes wrote:

So how did they get 0.8 from 37.5 degrees? Is that the tangent of the slope angle? It is close numerically, but it doesnt sound right, as it can exceed 100%. Or is the sinus? That doesnt match numerically with 0.8.
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Your observation is correct, it's the tangent function. Gradient is the ratio of vertical elevation -vs- horisontal displacement, and with slopes greater than 45 degrees the vertical elevation goes up faster - hence it is possible for gradient to measure past 100% .
For instance, the gradient of a ladder leaning against a wall can be several hundred %'s, and the gradient of an upright wall itself is as much as infinite... :-)
Cheers!
- Risto -
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Or possibly even negative if your builder's had one too many for lunch.
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Skipweasel
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
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Percentage, as written down on the warning traffic signs (e.g.,
http://www.signaco.si/znaki/nevarno/nevar15s.gif and
http://www.signaco.si/znaki/nevarno/nevar16s.gif ) is defined as the vertical distance ascended (or descended) versus the horizontal distance travelled, 100*b/a in the following diagram:
/| / | c/ |b / | /____| a
This is the tangens of the angle between sides c and a. The gradient is also given as 1:X, but this is just the fraction b/a written as 1:(a/b).
Here's a table of some gradients in degrees and percentages, both rounded to 0 decimal places:
deg | perc. ==========90 | infinity 45 | 100 31 | 60 30 | 58 27 | 50 17 | 30 14 | 25 6 | 10
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A slope *can* exceed 100%, because yes, it is the tangent of the slope angle. A 45 degree slope is 100%.
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223rem wrote:

Well Christ, it's a fraud!!
"The Audi A6 4.2 quattro with 6-speed tiptronic that drove up the ski jump was otherwise a perfectly normal production version. Two minor exceptions: the automatic transmission was kept in first gear - the slight power loss that occurs when changing gear would have made it impossible to climb such a steep gradient - and the tyres' six-millimetre spikes. Tyres of this kind are also used in rallying."
"Minor Exceptions"?? 6mm spikes??? My Vette could make it up that hill with freakin' spikes!
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Larry Bud wrote:

You forgot it was whinched up.......so yes it is a fraud... as most commercials are. Kind regards, Erik-Jan.
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Erik-Jan Geniets wrote:

The article claims "back then and this time, both Audi models drove up the ski jump under their own power; they were not pulled." I believe it; I just don't see any use for being able to climb ski jumps in first gear with special tires.
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clifto wrote:

Me neither.....do not have a crane or chopper to put me there in the first place.....;-( Kind regards, Erik-Jan.
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That article was great. You can view the finished commercial at the www.audiusa.com website.
I'll defer all the calculations to the mathematicians in the group, I can understand that 80 degrees is almost straight up so it must be 80% so semantics is probably what's being debated.
I would submit to you this is what marketing is all about, making the public aware of the product, generating discussion and creating an impression. With the several dozen posts, in multiple newsgroups it has generated, and the articles on how the commercial was made, IMHO this commercial has accomplished its purpose. A bunch of guys were talking about it at my work last week and I'm sure that wasn't the only place that discussion was taking place. How many thousands of advertisements are we constantly exposed to on TV, radio, the web, newspapers, magazines, and billboards that make absolutely no impact on us?
Just my 2 cents
(top posted for your convenience)
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To this point, if you note the small print in the ad, it states that a safety line was used to PREVENT the car from sliding down.
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Larry Bud wrote:

According to the "making of" pictures in another post it is the whinch cable that pulled the car up. Kind regards, Erik-Jan.
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Erik-Jan, Actually, it had a safety line attached in case it did slip and fall off the ramp. Similar to that used by mountain climbers - it's slack, but there as a precaution. If it's the same as the commercial for the 1987-vintage Audi 100/5000 quattro, then you'll see the tether in the film below the centreline of the car. It was not winched up, though, it drove up: http://www.nordicaudi.com/media/filmer/filmer/reklam/040208/quattro1.mpg Now the spiked tires.....that's grip, baby! Too bad spikes are illegal here in Canada. BTW, the ad with the Audi climbing the Andes in Chile with no rubber on the rims: http://www.nordicaudi.com/media/filmer/filmer/reklam/000726/ascent.avi - no spikes there! There are many other films on the Nordic Audi web site (under "Filmer") - there's probably the test that the German TV show did on the different SUV's climbing the ski slope. Of course, they're essentially commercials, caricaturing the selling points of the vehicle (hence, the use of spiked tires). In my work I've driven my quattro-equipped sedan off-road (in fields and various construction sites), but I'd never drive off-road like the guy in our office that owns a Jeep. Of course, some say the difference between 2 wheel drive and 4 wheel drive is the distance you drive in before you're stuck.....and it holds true for our Jeep guy, who needed an excavator to drag him out this past summer. ;-) Cheers! Steve Sears 1987 Audi 5kTQ - never tried to climb a ski jump, no spiked tires, though 1980 Audi 5k - could negotiate the parking lot of the ski resort. 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes - 36 Hp - gets stuck contemplating climbing hills (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

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Steve, Nice ad, but that's just it, advertising... How many people need/have to do that in a car? My old landie could probably do it too (slower tho') No tires? I reckon the rim sides with the asphalt/macadam? after having worn down in the first few metres, would be probably be more effective than spikes. I wouldn't advocate doing this yourself, unless you were desperate to get to the top, or if you had a spare set of rims...
PS I live in Switzerland, 4x4 is useful!... but, braking is like any other car... Spikes are allowed here, but you are limited to 80kmh. My best car ever on the snow was my '69 Beetle equiped with snow tyres.
-- ...tone LR90 "Emma" SRX6 - hibernating
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