Manufacturing methods have changed a lot at VAG since 2003. Cutting costs to make more profit, and trying to out do the competition, making them too complex. After all, they are only to get you (and yours) from A to B. The last time I looked at the dash of an A4, it seemed that it had more buttons than my keyboard. As you are such an expert driver, would you not agree that distractions should be kept to a minimum as the volume of traffic increases ? More buttons, more adjustments on the fly, less concentration on the task in hand ?
Anyway, good luck.
Yes I am in Euroland, and we call all cars that drive all four wheels '4 wheel drive', from a Fiat Panda Sisley, to Subarus and Lamborghinis. That is how they are known over here, regardless of technicalities.
But then we call this time of year 'Autumn' whereas you call it 'Fall'. I think the list would be too long to continue...
"would you not agree that distractions should be kept to a minimum as the volume of traffic increases ? More buttons, more adjustments on the fly, less concentration on the task in hand ?"
Most definately. One of the prime suspects of such distractions is gps systems, either built-in or added. I was riding with my wife a couple of days ago when she decided to program something on the gps. Bad practice.
True Clive, in the UK, when Christmas times arrive, the transportation business grows a lot for supplying all th shops with gifts and sending all those greeting cards, thereby the diesel price increase. Simple supply and demand rule. And UK is renowned to have only limited capacity for refining diesel.
In other countries, the governments tax diesel much more to the pump so. And the lorries or truck companies get a refund afterwards. Leading to the fact that some governments are favoring the companies for diesel usage.
But, countries like France wishing to depend less on petrol have favored diesel all along and its price is much cheaper. Their factories do have the capacity to refine diesel to the point that they supply the UK peaks around Christmas. They also know that the diesel engines do last a lot longer and consume much less, explaining the higher price tag for a diesel engine.
VAG (VW group) is still nose to nose with PSA (Peugeot) on the most efficient and performant diesel engines in Europe and Ford or Toyota are far behind. I even heard that BMW diesel engines were made by PSA (which used to supply them to Rover and Honda).
I hope that VAG produces a hybrid TDi around its 1.6 L engine and put that into the A5 sedan which I really like and has good reviews.
My experience with TDi is that they are so good, quite torquy, reliable and so green.
True Clive, in the UK, when Christmas times arrive, the transportation business grows a lot for supplying all th shops with gifts and sending all those greeting cards, thereby the diesel price increase. Simple supply and demand rule. And UK is renowned to have only limited capacity for refining diesel.
In other countries, the governments tax diesel much more to the pump so. And the lorries or truck companies get a refund afterwards. Leading to the fact that some governments are favoring the companies for diesel usage.
But, countries like France wishing to depend less on petrol have favored diesel all along and its price is much cheaper. Their factories do have the capacity to refine diesel to the point that they supply the UK peaks around Christmas. They also know that the diesel engines do last a lot longer and consume much less, explaining the higher price tag for a diesel engine.
VAG (VW group) is still nose to nose with PSA (Peugeot) on the most efficient and performant diesel engines in Europe and Ford or Toyota are far behind. I even heard that BMW diesel engines were made by PSA (which used to supply them to Rover and Honda).
I hope that VAG produces a hybrid TDi around its 1.6 L engine and put that into the A5 sedan which I really like and has good reviews.
My experience with TDi is that they are so good, quite torquy, reliable and so green.
LHR
What utter, utter garbage.
Yuou must come from another planet, get back to your fuel line magnets.
I had a 2007 BMW 335i (6spd, twin turbo, 2dr coupe). When I bought the car it had 40,000 miles and a transferable maintenance package/warranty (wipers, brakes, oil/other engine fluids). When the wiper blades are not up to standard BMW has to deem them that way (not the daily driver) and will not replace them. I didn't own the car long enough to even replace the brakes on the damn thing. When the service engine light came on I took it in for the scheduled oil change that is part of the maintenace package and they changed the oil for free (then charged me $20 to "dispose" of the used oil). I told the dealer that the dump in my town would dispose of the oil for free and to put the used oil in the used containers and I would dispose of it myself(obviously they had an excuse why they couldn't do that). One of the halo lights on the car burnt out, that was $200 for the part and labor for one headlight (ridiculous). My steering wheel lock sensor malfunctioned (didn't affect the performance of the car just displayed an annoying red light on the dash display that could not be overriden). That was not covered by the warranty and set me back a cool $1200. Then the fuel pump went on a car with 49,000 miles. Since this was a factory defect (still ongoing for the last 4 years with all
3.5 liter twin turbo BMW engines) they replaced it for free. This would've cost me $2500. Long story short I sold the Bmer and bought a
2008 IS 350 (had more options than the BMW...navigation, backup camera, covered under warranty for everything including the tire/wheel warranty (best thing ever any tire or wheel problems bring it back and it will be fixed free of charge), and the invisible shiled in the front and other areas to avoid rock chips. 32,000 miles of smooth sailing would never buy anything besides a Lexus again. I still have my 1999 GS400 (225,000 miles), 2008 IS 350 (32,000 miles) and saving for my next Lexus
I could show you review after review after review that has nothing but praise for the BMW 335I, but I won't because you have your mind made up. There was another guy around these parts that complained about BMWs and also praised the Lexus products. Coincidence, huh?
BMW, MB, Audi, as well as other Euro cars have made their reputation by turning out good products. They have also enhanced that reputation by racing. I have *never* heard of Lexus racing.
Let's toss some numbers out ....... lesseeee...... Aha! price of BMW 335I US$47,625 well equipped. price of IS350 US$49,415 well equipped. Advantage: BMW
BHP BMW = 300 with 300 lb.-ft of torque BHP IS35 = 306 with 277 lb.-ft of torque Advantage: Toss up. I'd take the addition 23 lb.ft of torque over the 6 bhp
0-60 BMW = 4.7 sec. with 100 at 11.7.
0-60 IS350 = 5.5 sec. with 100 at 13.9 Advantage: Clearly BMW, making the Lexus nothing more than a back marker.
Handling skidpad BMW = 0.91g Handling skidpad IS-350 = 0.81g Advantage: Again, very clearly the BMW. 0.10gs may not sound like much, but it really can matter a whole lot when you need that extra grip.
Braking 60-0 BMW = 117 ft. (pretty good) Braking 60-0 IS350 = 133 ft (YIKES!) Advantage BMW, by a life saving distance of 16 feet, or the length of one car. The stopping distance of 133 ft is dismal. So, you BMW 335 drivers out there, if you are being followed by an IS350, know that when you make an emergency stop, the Lexus will stop in front of you after going through or over you.
Mileage BMW = 18.4 mpg observed during testing period. Mileage IS350 = 19.0 mpg observed during testing period. Advantage: Lexus. Hey, ya got one, by .6 mpg. Strike up the band, fanfare, hip/hip hooooray!
The above testing was done by a auto enthusiast's magazine. The BMW
335I is remarkably more agile, faster, and track proven than the Lexus.
But, of course if you are a little old man who is not looking for performance, knows very little about automobiles, the Lexus should fit you very well.
I will chuckle, chortle, and snort every time I pass a Lexus (or one passes me). Good cars, but not great cars, not a driver's car.
Good luck. Remember, we have an RX-330 (basically the same engine and brakes) and have had more than our fair share of troubles.
what matters is that you get a car that handles well and behaves likes a sports car and this does not mean having a big engine. So, we want good braking and excellent road handling.
This is usually in those areas where the Japanese cars are weaker and French or Italian doing so much better.
I repeat this figure since this is the one that counts: Handling skidpad BMW =3D 0.91g Handling skidpad IS-350 =3D 0.81g
Even if 0.10gs may not sound like much, but at those levels, it means a great deal of difference in road holding and cornering hability. For example, a simple Peugeot 405 (which were sold in the USA for a while) has 0.85g, better than a very expensive Lexus. If you look for a Peugeot 605 and 607, they match Citroen XM or later C6 and reach 0.93, better than an M5. I could show you that Alfa Romeo and the newer big Volvos (designed with Renault's knowledge) offers similar figures.
If you live near the Mountains and want to have a good time on a curvy road, better buy a European made car. Road handling can also mean saving the life of your family in extreme occasions. That is why the Japanese do not sell much in Europe.
Braking 60-0 BMW =3D 117 ft. / 35 meters (pretty good) Braking 60-0 IS350 =3D 133 ft / 40 meters (YIKES!)
This is a 5 meters difference. As you point you, a whole car length. Well, in all the car test reports, I have always realised that the weak link for Japanese cars is braking. Toyota is renowned for fitting small brakes which will have to lock in order to stop rapidly. Proper braking also means saving your family's life.
Model now replaced / updated to E92 LCI, thousands of changes (mostly software)
Had this one one of my E90s, could be over-ridden, but sorted under warranty.
Actually, 3.0 litre engines.
I don't like BMW or their cars very much, but no other manufacturer makes a turbo diesel straight six engine. The V six diesels from MB and Audi are not for me for a variety of reasons.
Exactly! Braking, agility, and road holding are, to me, more important than acceleration. As far a Gs are concerned, 0.10g is an enormous difference, and could indeed mean the difference between making a turn under an emergency, or going of the road.
Peugeot 405s were sold in this country during the 80s. My boss's boss owned one and he seemed happy with it. However, I believe they did not sell well because of styling and reliability. They certainly know how to make a race car, giving the Audi R10s a run for the money in the Petit le Mans series here in the States, and the actual le Mans race in France. I saw the 10 hour race at Road Atlanta this year where Peugeot came in 1-2 with their HDI deisels. Unfortunately for me, Audi came in
3rd. d;o( Remember, however, that Audi started the deisel racing development, so I am sure they will be back. The Peugeot is closed cockpit as opposed to Audi's open cockpit. I'm sure that makes a difference.
Saw lots of BMWs, Jaguars, Ferraris, Porsches, Corvettes, but no Lexuses. Strange, huh? d;o)
For a long time, Japanese manufacturers (altogether) had a total maximum import quota of 11% of the new car market in Europe. That includes Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, Daihatsu, Suzuki, Mitsubishi, Mazda and Isuzu.
This was overcome by opening factories to make their cars in Europe.
A lot of people don't realize they can add F-Sport accessories to the IS350, get numbers on skidpad and braking that exceed the BMW model equivalent, and pay a lot less GermanTax.
I actually like BMW in many ways but I never understood the "bimmer goggles" people get which prompt them to ignore reality.
You quoted numbers from a stock IS350 without sport package much less F-Sport addons, yet only mentioned the three-letter BMW acronym in your comparison with no model name and proof that you are even comparing similarly configured cars.
But, they were the only threat to Audi's wins. Both companies produce excellent high tech deisels. The muffled purr as they raced by me at Road Atlanta was something to behold.
Adding F-Sport accessories is expensive, right. The BMW335i which IS a comparable automobile doesn't need them. For Lexus to build a street car with a stopping distance of 133 feet is shameful. I don't know what you mean by German Tax.
It's called brand loyalty. I don't understand why people continue to buy Buicks or Cadillacs or Chrysler products.
I mentioned that the BMW was a 335, exacly what the IS-350 is in buying competition with.
"Let's toss some numbers out ....... lesseeee...... Aha! price of BMW 335I US$47,625 well equipped. price of IS350 US$49,415 well equipped. Advantage: BMW"
They are similarly priced, equipped, and are in direct competition with one another. The BMW has a 3 liter engine and the Lexus a 3.5 liter engine, putting out about equal power. If you add F-Sport options, your IS350 is going to get into the M3 area pricewise, maybe even into the BMW535I price range. Believe me, it's not worth it, unless of course you are a boy racer. No one should have to pay extra to have a car stop from 60-0 in less than 120 feet. That 133 ft on the IS-350 is horrible, AND dangerous. Think about it.
Here in Europe, Peugeot have long had a reputation for quiet diesels, but that's more to do with the pre-chamber technique, VAG has never been approached for diesels anywhere until common rail, 2000 bar pressures and five injections per combustion cycle arrived, now I think it's between Bosch of Germany and Nippon-Denso of Japan. I can't see any other manufacturer in the running.
I'm sure you will make up your own definition of what "well equipped" means as we go along, but for example, starting with a RWD IS350, I can add F-Spot brace and sway bar for under $1k, and F-sport rear brake upgrade for $2.5k, which would address the skid pad and braking numbers quoted earlier. That brings total MSRP to around $43k. I could spend more if needed, but there's no need to to exceed what the
335 offers.
Nobody should have to pay extra for leather interior either but BMW wants to charge me $1,450 if I prefer those to plastic seats.
In terms of what's dangerous, NHTSA tests show the Lexus IS as being a considerably safer car than the BMW 3 series.
I just "built" an IS-350 at their site. Additional "sport" brakes, sway bar, shocks, etc, brought the total to $55K.
Leather? I agree that a car that costs that much should have leather as a standard item, but nobody needs leather. They DO need an automobile that stops from 60 mph in less than 120 feet, they DO need a automobile that will pull more than 0.81g.
I just "built" the BMW335I at their site and added M sport package and a whole bunch of other things and came up with a total of $54K. Soooo???
BMW stock, out of the shute, doesn't need extra "sport" or "performance" options to be safe at stopping and maneuvering. The Lexus apparently does.
I am NOT a BMW fan. I have driven them, even ice raced a couple. I briefly thought of buying an M5 when they were producing them. I fell in love with the 6 series when it came back, but I believe Audi makes a better car, and BMW makes a better car than Lexus. My pocketbook
*knows* it does. I have also driven the ISF and was unimpressed when compared to my RS6 or an MB AMG C63. Do yourself a favor; drive an M3 and a C63, then drive the ISF. I wish you could drive an RS6, but they only imported 800 of them in 2003. They are rare and hard to find.
Bottom line: The Germans have a history of building fine performance centered automobiles (Audi, BMW, MB, Porsche). The Japanese with their luxory portion of Toyota build a good car. Perhaps in 50 years they too will have a reputation for being well built *and* give performance too
I didn't say they were IMPOSSIBLE to find, I said they are rare and hard to find. With only 800 of them imported 8 years ago, I should imagine that there are considerably less than 800 now available. I belong to an Audi club and mine is the only RS6 in the chapter. I have the BBS LM 19 inch wheels on mine (18 inch factory for snows). For that factory recall, I opted to take the money and put on Bilstein shocks over - it increased the handling some and lowered a bit. Mine is silver over black and didn't have a scratch on it until about a month ago when I inadvertently hit the left rear fender with the handle of a lawn mower.
The guy there was comparing stock cars. Then, if you want to look for modified versions, you can compare your Lexus with F-Sport with a BMW with Alpina and this would tell.
I have driven a 1986 BMW323 myself for many years and was really happy with, even on the snowy road between Geneva and Crans-Montana where I used to ski. Maybe, they were better in those days but I did test drive a 2005 BMW323 and I felt back in a similar car, not in terms of looks which had improved, but the engine and the drive did seem very close to the old one.
I remember seeing the the lateral acceleration figures a couple of years ago and I remember seeing the 0.91 one for BMW325 or so, may Dave can tell us which BMW he is talking about. Maybe, we can find the Audi A4, RS4 or S4 ones which would be very close to the Audi 80. My Audi 80, provided that it is fitted with proper tyres can corner incredibly well. I have raced a BMW series 3 on the motoway down to Kyrenia from the mountain range, where curves were limited at 50 km/h and I passed them at 80 freaking the hell out of my opponent, thanks to the Pirellis in front.
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