Cost of repair Audi BMW Saab...(crossposting)

"crippled in handling"? Apparently, Fred hasn't experienced the difference between dry road AWD neutrality and BMW's famous trailing throttle oversteer ...

-- C.R. Krieger (Been there; done that in the Kink)

While the BMWs you *don't* see are the 'Xi AWD cars that beat you there ...

And some of us know that twisty roads, autocrossing, and driving speed events on race tracks wears out the *front* tires a lot more than it does the rears - unless your idea of 'spirited driving' includes lots of burnouts. It's worst on FWDs.

Actually, the end of *my* BMW life will have included driving Audi Quattros (including turbos) for 14 years, lots of fun FWDs *and* lots of RWD and a few AWD BMWs - not to mention our current Jaguar X-Type AWD (a 3.0 5-speed Sport, so you can forget trotting out your tired old 'but they're slow and have bad autoboxes' line). Of the lot, I found the Audis (at least all of them after the first 4000/90Q) to be the most boring. Even my Fiat 128 was more entertaining - when it ran. ;^)

-- C.R. Krieger (Been there; done that)

OK; but who won? ;^)

-- C.R. Krieger (Been there; done that)

"C.R. Krieger" escribió en el mensaje news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com...

If it's really slippery, and given the same driver and tyres and similar engines, Quattro still beats your Xi.

And some other ones of us know that if you go drifting on an M3, which is my point, and what really good drivers and real BMWs are best at, my argument still holds perfectly true.

Quite possibly true, but Audis may still probably be the safest of all of those.

No, the weight distribution (front/rear) will most certainly change as a) the car is tilted on the longitudinal axis and b) when accelerating.

-Fred W

Ummm, slowly?

Seriously. Any FWD, RWD or AWD (*including* Quattro) can be made to go quite nicely in snow when the right tires are put on them. The rest is just varying dgrees of confidence at incremental speeds.

Some prefer the front weight biased FWD which is sort of a point and shoot dart approach. Others (myself included) prefer the rear driven, power-sliding cart before the horse. And yet a third category wouldn't be caught dead without their full time AWD pulling from both ends.

It's all preference and none are completely superior. As in all things in life, it is a matter of balancing trade-offs.

-Fred W

Hmmm, trailing throttle oversteer... just another tool in the driver's toolbox, no? What better way to get that back end around the corner in a hurry? ;-)

-Fred W

Oh, oh. That sure looks like flame bait posted to an audi newsgroup to me...

-Fred W

Then there are the fourth category, who buy all-season tires which suck equally in all conditions, and probably don't know _which_ of their wheels are responsible for moving the car around. With the wrong tires, where the drive wheels are doesn't matter.

Yup. By the way, do I know you from another place, Fred?

Dave Hinz

"left foot braking", anyone? Fun technique in a Saab, is to keep on the gas, hit the brakes with your left foot, and let the back end slide to where you want it. Makes going around corners on snow/ice much more fun and exciting, and with practice you can get some great speed improvements.

Dave Hinz

snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com

Regards

Wolfgang

Say folks, do you read the thread?

I already said you were right.

Regards

Wolfgang

I don't, so there...

But maybe I hate formatted e-mails...

;-) DAS

In what town are you in? Randstad...?...

DAS

Top 10 sellers in UK in first quarter 04:-

43,115 Ford Focus 33,355 Vauxhall Corsa 29,479 Peugeot 206 27,217 Ford Fiesta 23,496 Vauxhall Astra 22,283 Renault Megane 21,688 ditto Clio 19,067 Ford Mondeo 18,366 VW Golf 17,830 Peugeot 307

See UK data here:

You can download a spreadsheet and a Word document with commentary.

DAS

Do they? 330i: 225HP, 20/28 with automatic. Honda Accord: 240HP,

21/30 with automatic.

Neither do most Saabs (GM's V6 excepted).

in article snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com, dizzy at snipped-for-privacy@nospam.invalid wrote on 5/12/04 6:22 PM:

Obviously no way to prove or disprove which engine is more efficient from the above. Too many other variables, not the least of which is published vs actual mileage which often varies a lot. My take is that the BMW engines are very good in this respect, and perform very close to claims. Certainly there are others that do equally well. My 330i was surprisingly fuel efficient given the acceleration capability. Even my M3 does pretty good as long as you don't "nail it"

I'm in the Randstad, yes. Admittedly, not the best place to live in.