Guess What (follow-up)?

What about warranty on the first repair/exchange job? Was it already expired?

US customers.. ?

Well, just to drop another view in:

My A6 TDI developed sort of a rough idle after 4 years. To sort it out, my Audi garage changed both camshafts, filters, engine mounts and re-adjusted timing etc.

The whole procedure took several visits and a few months, but I always got a free loaner and didn't have to pay a single euro (except for the fuel for the loaner). They were flexible with appointments and the car was washed and cleaned inside every time.

During one of the first service visits in 2000 they should have done a rewiring of the MAF which they didn't. It was not an absolute must, but a recommendation. That caused the consumption of 3 MAFs of which I didn't pay a single one. I insisted on the re-wirig after ~5 years. The car was out of any warranty of course by then but as I had told them about the re-wiring before (which I myself estimated at roughly

1,5 hours job for a good mechanic) I paid a more or less symbolic contribution of 15 Euros.

Sure, one could argue, that it should have been completely free, but I was happy it had been done and the tip to the mech would have been there anyway.

And finally: I had an aftermarket (Eberspaecher) pre-heater installed, which was subcontracted by them to another company. I was suspicious because I wanted Webasto. They recommended Eberspaecher and sure enough the pre-heater smoked like an old chimney and was unusable. They picked up the car two times at my company to bring it into the shop, leaving me a loaner. They agreed to change to a Webasto free of charge for me in case they couldn't fix it in short time although the Webasto was more expensive but finally found the flaw and fixed it (pre-heater exhaust installation error). Since then it works like a charm and hadn't shown a problem at all. To get this done in the end they got their head mechanic, the subcontractor AND the Austrian Eberspaecher head tech in to discuss that directly on my car.

I'm at the moment factually basing my decision on the next car brand almost purely on the fact that I finally found a shop which is good, fast, precise, flexible and features a good price/performance relation.

Ok, enough babbling but the pluses almost never get mentioned. It's the complaints which get sorted out here.

Regards

Wolfgang

JP, I'd venture that it's not necessarily the "make" but the "dealer" who is mistreating their customers - maybe you should consider going the extra 100 miles to the other dealer - post on Audiworld and here asking what the rep of the other dealership is - and while you're at it, post the name of the dealership that you had problems with so others can avoid lousy treatment. If the independent is a good shop and does great work, why not continue with them? Cheers! Steve Sears

1987 Audi 5kTQ 1980 Audi 5k 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

I've long been having oil changes done at the independent. I think you're getting confused here, since what we were discussing is the fact that this should have been covered under a faulty design silent guarantee by the make - read dealer.

"Steve Sears" escribió en el mensaje news:J8t9e.10819$ snipped-for-privacy@news20.bellglobal.com...

I'm glad to believe you were pampered like that, because I think you must be just about one of the rare exceptions, and judging from what I've read on the forums, the general opinion on the treatment they get from the make is clearly bad, and that's even in the US, where customers get better treatment than in Europe. It is now perfectly clear to me, that the arms were clearly underengineered and that they should be covered for the life of the car. Further to this, if you drop into just any garage where the mechs have some experience they'll tell you that the front suspension of these cars is basically ***t in terms of long term reliability.

treatment.

continue with

This is the same complaint heard over and over all over usenet, no matter what make. If the dealer makes a mistake, the manufacturer is at fault (so the reasoning goes.) If the dealer is crummy at CS, somehow Audi is the problem. It may be that the control arms were under-engineered. But the dealer was the problem to begin with, saying work had been done when it had not. Audi didn't have anything to do with JPR's out-of-pocket, other than a problem with under-engineering (which is still a maybe.)

I agree that the name of the rep and the dealership should be made known. So that if any one of us finds ourselves in that area, we know where *not* to go.

It would still be better if JPR got a Toyota or Honda product. That way, when he has a problem, and goes to a newsgroup to complain, they'll be able to tell him the same thing. After questioning his truthfulness, because everyone knows that Toyotas and Hondas don't break down. :) Don't laugh too hard, I've seen it.

In the end, Audi's not much on the hook for this one. The dealer, however, is.

E.P.

But the dealer sucks, so don't go there. The dealer *should* have done it, but didn't. So don't go there. The dealer is not interested in you as a repeat customer. Don't go there.

E.P.

That's true. With my recent fuel pump follies, my independent was quite embarrassed about not finding the problem, even with all the billing he did. It was all legit - he spent time trying to track down an intermittent problem. It just so happened that it finally failed away from his shop. I have always been happy with my mechanic - he does a great job at low prices, and if he goofs, he covers out of his own pocket. All of our high-mileage Audis have been solid, and even though the parts are somewhat expensive, they are no worse that the same parts for Japanese cars. While I'm not a big fan of dealerships in general (high rates, 100% book-time charges), a few of the relatively local ones have been very helpful in sorting minor DIY stuff. Like how to replace bulbs when the mounting hardware is not as simple as it first appears.

JPR's dealer sounds like a place to avoid, but they are not *all* like that...

E.P.

JP, I'd love a warranty like that on the rear transverse links on my 5ktq - I've had to replace them a couple of times in the past few years. It may be true that the front links were underdesigned.....some revisions to the design and a silent warranty may have been applied to the underdesign......but a lifetime warranty? Cheers! Steve Sears

1987 Audi 5kTQ 1980 Audi 5k 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

JP, Didn't you say that the dealer found that they _were_ replaced a while back under the silent warranty programme - once their IT guys got their ducks in a line? - As with my other post, considering that ball joints are indeed a wear item, and do wear out on most cars, it is possible you could take your complaint to AoA if the lifespan of the replacements were less than most - at best, they'd cover some of the replacement cost (although it may be unlikely if the replacements were done at the independent garage with parts purchased through channels other than Audi (dunno if that's possible or not). Cheers! Steve Sears

1987 Audi 5kTQ 1980 Audi 5k 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

I'd be interested to know how you arrived at that conclusion.

"Graham" escribió en el mensaje news: snipped-for-privacy@individual.net...

Just conduct a number of random searches on

on the subject of dealerships, or more specifically "stealerships" as they are commonly referred to.

Phoned the closest dearlership apart from "mine", which is 50 miles from this (therefore the 100-mile trip) and they told me the same story in terms of the make only covering those items for which there was a current campaign. Well, I think this is very bad; you only need to think of what happens if you miss that recall letter - which I incidentally have not yet received for the current lower arm recall. The little *** know perfectly well it's hardly ever the lower arms that go, but the upper ones, that's why they're doing the campaign on the lower ones.

I feel utterly disappointed and cheated, especially as this is fairly common practice as I've got to know now.

They should have been replaced, but with these so called "campaigns", if the dealer does happen to have the necessary time to check during a routinely service, and I'm assuming they do, it still takes some "free play" or whatever other sypmtoms for them to have the parts replaced. Now, if they know these to be faulty I find that is only adding insult to injury as they should all be replaced automatically in every single instance.

"Steve Sears" escribió en el mensaje news:W9w9e.10945$ snipped-for-privacy@news20.bellglobal.com...

I would really like to buy this, but if you read my other posts, you'll realize that it's an Audi "policy" thing not to automatically replace all faulty parts. To give you a further example, my brother-in-law had to drop his car at the dealer's three times for three sucessive but differently and ill-timed coilpack failures. This is something that you will never see when a Japanese make is involved, and I should think no other German manufacturers would dare live up to such preposterous standards. I feel it's especially disappointing as we are paying dear money for these cars in the belief that they are going to be German-reliable and I have always know Germans to be very serious about whatever they do.

Not only Audi.

Seen that e.g. on Hondas and Toyotas, too

Check the BMW and/or Merc Newsgroups. Or the japanese ones.

Regards

Wolfgang

So you had your warranty work done on recall 5 years ago, and you now have

100k miles on the clock and expect that a wear item should be replaced under warranty?

I know the suspension arms on Audi's is poor but they do last for at least a few years which is "good enough"

I would say bite the bullet and live with it, you still got a nice car, remember most Audi owners are repeat customers, once you buy an Audi you dont go back :)

Wolfgang, Hear hear. Piecemeal servicing is getting more common everyday. The more complex the cars, the more "black boxes" to go wrong. Sometimes there may be a group of BB's daisy chained together to form a system, and the standard operating procedure is to replace the most likely failed BB, see if that fixed the problem, then go for the next, and the next, and the next......sounds alot like the A8L problem we had here a while back, but it was also the problem I heard about a certain British SUV company repair policy, too. It's all across the board. I doubt that servicing Japanese products would make JP feel all warm and fuzzy inside, either. After having a massive rear brake replacement (cables, calipers, rotors) on my wife's 2k2 CRV, in which I was criticized as being neglectful for not bringing in the car for a "brake inspection" (I "inspected" them when I rotated the tires), I asked for the rotors back. They forgot and threw them out. I asked for a replacement set and they said "Oh yeah, we get CRV's and Odysseys in all the time for rear brake problems, we'll get you a set next week". Inspection, my a$$. Cheers! Steve Sears

1987 Audi 5kTQ 1980 Audi 5k 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

"Wolfgang Pawlinetz" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

JP, So were they replaced or not? Cheers! Steve Sears

1987 Audi 5kTQ 1980 Audi 5k 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

I *have* read your other posts. If the part is not currently causing a problem, then they should not have to replace it. This is not an Audi-only thing - they *all* do it.

differently and

Again, the policy of not replacing parts that are not currently broken causes some hassles. Maybe Audi could have sourced all the needed coil packs all at once. And maybe tequila is suddenly going to pour out of a faucet at home. Until Audi had a large enough supply, there *just weren't enough* coil packs to replace four when one was faulty.

Flat out wrong.

Mercedes and BMW have exactly the same policy.

As I have said before, you had better start shopping for a luxury Japanese make to reduce the strain on your heart.

Where again is this dealer that's not replacing non-faulty parts for free?

E.P.