siezed calipers, pooched rotors.
Apparently, the rear calipers must not like the salty winter roads so much -
I was told the local Stealership goes through loads of brake replacements
every spring on CRV's and Odysseys - bad owners, of course.
Honda used to be different - they replaced the whole rear suspension and gas
tank on a recall on my parent's 1982 Civic Wagon when it was 13 years old.
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)
Can you provide any links proving that any other presumably "serious" makes
have had problems with suspension arms?
Again I'll appreciate any links you can provide in that direction, as the
only things I seem to have read about Honda was that they were by far much
more reliable than any German makes, and every owner seemed to be more or
less pretty happy about their Hondas. And I know Audis look better but the
type R is a hell of a car performance wise and with such a high-revving
engine, this should last no longer than a couple of hundred miles, if the
parts in this engine were of a similar standard to that of VW suspension rod
We were talking about the replacement policy, right?
Google search for '$BRANDHERE front suspension problem' gives
This one might be worth a quote:
My experience with Toyota was the same: they rush and do a minimal
work to appear trying to fix things and when they fail they tell you
that they do not know what to do next or they refer you to the Toyota
I suggest that you ask your dealer put you in contact with the Toyota
Representative and if that does not work try arbitration
I also suggest that "you do not hold your breath(!)" even if
arbitration results in your favor. The decision is supposed to be
"binding on Toyota," it isn't. In my case even if the arbitrator
decided that Toyota should repair the car, Toyota did not.
Ok. Just for starters (unfortunately in german, but you'll recognize
the pattern. The less the number of needed assistances is, the better
Roadside assistances medium to upperclass cars
Then I got bored searching.
Do not appear to be general or serious and for the first two there is no
indication that the car owner had to pay for the repairs.
In the end it turned out to be tyre related, so not relevant.
The first turned out to be the muffler, the second, however, is relevant,
though there is nothing about control arms, only springs and struts, which
is not really in the same league as far as wear is concerned.
The first is about an off roader so that's a completely different matter.
The second is not specific at all.
Statistics is the science by which if a man has eaten a chicken and another
one has not eaten one, at the end of the day they will both have eaten half
of it each. Anyway, it would have to be seen how many more Mercs and BMWs
are there on the German roads, by comparison to the number of Audis. I
believe the ratio must be somewhere between 2 Mercs per every Audi, and 1.5
BMWs per Audi, though of course I still prefer my whole Audi to that
remaining half a BMW :)!
Not trying to pull anyone's leg, here and do appreciate your efforts but I
So you had your warranty work done on recall 5 years ago, and you now have
100k miles on the clock and expect that a wear item should be replaced under
I know the suspension arms on Audi's is poor but they do last for at least a
few years which is "good enough"
I would say bite the bullet and live with it, you still got a nice car,
remember most Audi owners are repeat customers, once you buy an Audi you
dont go back :)
I *have* read your other posts. If the part is not currently causing a
problem, then they should not have to replace it. This is not an
Audi-only thing - they *all* do it.
Again, the policy of not replacing parts that are not currently broken
causes some hassles. Maybe Audi could have sourced all the needed coil
packs all at once. And maybe tequila is suddenly going to pour out of
a faucet at home. Until Audi had a large enough supply, there *just
weren't enough* coil packs to replace four when one was faulty.
Flat out wrong.
Mercedes and BMW have exactly the same policy.
As I have said before, you had better start shopping for a luxury
Japanese make to reduce the strain on your heart.
Where again is this dealer that's not replacing non-faulty parts for
I can't believe you bought such a lame excuse. This is no excuse at all,
remember they do have all the necessary cars it takes to supply just any
market. If it'd been a Chinese customer placing an order for 500 A6 on
condition that they must be made within three week's time they sure would
have taken and fullfilled the demand.
Where's that link?
I friend of mine had the whole of his '02 M3's engine replaced 2 months out
of warranty before it broke - which remains to be seen whether it would have
happened. This is exactly the right and opposite policy. I don't know about
Pretty much everywhere else when it's a clear case of underengineering.
It's not an excuse, but reality. The fact is that the replacementsa
didn't exist in great enough numbers. When they did exist, then all
the packs were replaced at once.
Hardly. You can't just wave a wand and have parts materialize out of
thin air. Do you know anything at all about heavy manufacturing?
Link to what?
There's more to your story than you are saying. In fact, BMW had a
very specific problem with their M3s, due to oil issues. And some
dealers do work with their customers, to make sure they come back,
regardless of corporate policy. I know of several people who had
warranty work done outside of warranty eligibility, just because they
had good dealer relations.
Are you an engineer? No? Then you cannot say that it's a "clear
I'm becoming curious as to why you are not naming this dealer that's so
shoddy. If what you say is completely true, then what's the problem?
It seems to me as though you want a lifetime warranty on wear parts
where no other manufacturer has such a policy. All because your German
car is a little more expensive than other cars to fix. I will repeat
my suggestion: sell your Audi, and buy a Honda or Toyota product.
I do know the basics about assembly line work, but then again I bet there is
not only one coil pack manufacturer in the world. Now, there's probably only
a cheap one, which happens to be the one supplying them. So, it's nothing a
couple more bucks investment couldn't have solved in an instant.
This is what they should all do, although of course only if there's a good
reason enough, which happens to be the case.
Well, now I can see you're just a would-be knowitall. Yes, I do happen to be
an engineer although my knowledge of car mechanics is rather limited, but I
can still easily tell from the many woe stories when something has been
underengineered, but it doesn't take an engineer to not fail to see this.
Also, upon inspection deterioration is so obvious that there's no denying
the bad engineering.
If I'm not naming the dealer it's only because it's thousands of miles away
from where most of you probably are, so you're perfectly safe in that
respect, and because the point is that this contemptible behaviour is pretty
much extended where I am based. I would dare to say that the good stories
are the rare exceptions. But with a few exceptions like that of Wolfgang, I
think it's the make's policy that's faulty. If you doubt what I'm saying I
would like you to point me out to just a couple of links in which our make
has covered something after the guarantee had expired.
Have you read the links I looked up for you as far as other brands are
In your (understandable) bitterness you are now trying to ask for the
impossible. As has been discussed numerous times, the folks who got
their Audi serviced properly, quickly and who were taken care of have
absolutely no inclination to write that down.
The Audi Group delivered 1.2 Million units to customers in 2004 and
2003. Volkswagen as a total 5 Million Units per year worldwide. How
many posts does Audiworld have which are that negative? How many
posters show up here every month to ask for some help? 10? 20?
But I can only meanwhile recommend the same as other posters: Go and
get another brand?
Allow me to praise my dealer (which I think I've done in this space:
John Holtz Audi in Rochester, NY). They've never ripped me off.
They've given me good advice and diagnoses. However, I have not
always (or often, for that matter) gone to them for major service work
because their prices are so much higher than the two independent shops
I can choose from locally. And those shops also do great jobs with
Audi and other Kraut import cars.
Back to the dealer: they're forthright about their prices, and my
market bears them, but I don't participate, that's all, beyond the
routine oil change for the most part. And they're still very good in
the customer care department. I value their involvement in the care
of my 1998 2.8 A4 Quattro.
Unfortunately, I've gotta replace some control arms on the front
passenger corner, at 86k miles, but that's life with an Audi, and I
still feel I'm coming out way ahead valuewise. This paid-off car is
still cheaper for me to run than a new car with payments, and I love
the whole driving experience with it. I'll be going to Universal
Imports for this work, I think, which will cost me half of what Holtz
would charge. But I do like CDI out in Victor, too.
Wolfgang, did you read my reply to those links posted above?
These are still a minority when it comes down to general satisfaction with
the treatment received. Just do a search in Audiworld.
There's no denying that these newsgroup is a valuable asset, but no matter
how impressive your figures are, you're neglecting the fact that the vast
majority of Audi Owners will never take to the internet to vent their
frustrations with the make out.
If your intention is to convince readers here that all Audis are "under
engineered" and that we've all been ripped off, you will never succeed.
Those of us reading the group who have had good value and satisfactory
products from Audi, will sympathise but dismiss your story as a one-off.
That's the natural reaction if our experience doesn't match yours.
Time to move on, unless you're trying to speculate on a "class action".
N.B. Email sent to "nospam" will be rejected. Please use Reply-To address.
For that particular application? You do not have the slightest clue
about the particulars of that case, and now you somehow claim to know
about how many suppliers there are?
OK, here's an exercise for your own amusement - a question to which I
actually know the answer:
At the time of VAG's coil pack problem, how many manufacturers could
have supplied, at a one-week notice, a batch of one hundred of those
specified coil packs?
Answer the question above for enlightenment.
Then why bother having a warranty period, hmmm? If it breaks, we'll
fix it, no matter how old the car? No matter what mileage, no matter
what sort of abuse or modification? OK, so that's the silly extreme,
but there does have to be a line drawn somewhere. You happened to fall
on the other side of it, and your dealership is taking a hard line and
saying "tough luck."
Just like every other manufacturer's dealerships in the vast majority
of these kinds of cases. Wishing otherwise is a foolish exercise.
You admit you're not an automotive engineer, so in this case I guess I
really am right. Making your "clear case" comment is just so much
Except you're not an automotive engineer, so your "inspection" is
meaningless. A few stories and some hearsay from some folks who have a
monetary interest in getting your car on a hoist is not evidence. I
suppose in your courses of study in engineering you had to take some
classes in real, hard sciences, right? You can tell the difference
between hard and anecdotal data, yes?
All the more reason to name this dealer. Because now it's *your*
credibility that I'm questioning. Normally, I give the benefit of the
doubt to the customer, and assume the dealer is the problem. Now I'm
beginning to get another idea in your specific case.
Why? I've heard of more good stories in this thread than bad.
LOL. You think the car should come with some all-inclusive lifetime
warranty for everything, including stuff that other people have had
replaced under warranty.
I would not expect them to cover something after the warranty had
expired, unless it was a recall item. Audi or some other manufacturer.
If you wanted a longer warranty, then you should have purchased one.
If the cost of repairing your out-of-warranty car is too dear, then you
need a different car that's cheaper to fix when it breaks.
I would like to know why you expect free service and parts after
warranty for non-recall items when that virtually never happens for any
other make or model. Why should Audi do what no one else does, and not
charge more for it?
The only fault which has affected the drivability any of our Audis, in a
total 11.5 years of ownership was when a fuel injector failed on my 1996
A4 2.6. It failed about 2 months out of warranty but Audi UK covered
the repair at no cost to me.
Peter Bell (Note Spamtrap - To reply, replace 'invalid' with 'bellfamily')
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