Quattro Expense

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Pete wrote:


nearly bullet-proof. Sure, it would cost a lot if you had to replace it, but the fact is, it rarely ever needs any fixing/maintenance.

Agreed. It makes little sense at all here in the US where every soccer mom is driving around in a gas guzzling 4WD SUV. For me, the driving experience, safety, and creature comforts far outweighs the slightly lower mileage. As for repair costs, my experience with Audi vehicles doesn't jibe with the original poster's hearsay.
Regards,
C
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I put over 140K miles on my '95 A6Q wagon and currently have over 130K miles on my '98 A6Q wagon. I have never spent a dime on a repair related to the AWD.
Bob

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On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 22:59:32 GMT, "eBob.com"

Interesting.
I have been googling AWD and also similar vehicle comparisons for the past few months. I hve been collecting qualitative info before I 'actually' get in the cars I am interested in trying/buying.
I will try the FWD and AWD A4 saturday. Should be interesting.
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150k miles Quattro perfect, infact tyre wear is less with quattro, FWD cars waste front tyres for a pasttime.
You will regret not getting Quattro because people will say, "why didnt you get it" and you have no argument to back up the fact :)
Oh and its safer.
Ron
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On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:36:04 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@tater.cu (Richard Potato) wrote:

I own a 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V bought in 92 with 65,000 kilometers on it. Presently nearing 300,000 kilometers. Not a single Quattro related problem during the time I've owned the car.
Taking a chance on this car was the best investment I have ever made in a car. I was expecting it to cost me a small fortune in maintenance, but this has not been the case.
Andre
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Less that driving a 2WD vehicle into a tree? Or other relatively fixed part of the landscape? ;o)
TBH, it all depends upon how you drive, how you'd prefer to drive (given the opportunity), how many miles, and the likely terrain.
Impossible to comment without more information (the country might help, as well, as running costs can vary a /lot/ between (e.g.) the USA and most everywhere else)
--

Hairy One Kenobi

Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
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On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 01:06:25 -0000, "Hairy One Kenobi"

Cost related to higher consumption of consumables related to more moving parts. Trees and other unmovable objects are the subject of another thread.

Not very many km's, highly varied terrain but mostly 11 km back and forth to where I type out these missives. And highway speeds, <95km/hr for 1/2 the trip. Which is why I am not looking at the 3.0 l A4 Quattro. Too much bhp for too little road.

Canada, wet coast. Everything is more expensive here than any where else in the couuntry except for the rain. Falls from the sky year round here except during the summer and other times of the year.
The opinion of the mech is just that. Ultimately the question would be: Audi but no quattro? I am just trying to stay away from the emotional part of this thing but ask me on monday after the test drives.

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If you're determined to get an Audi, then get a quattro. It's the most reliable part of the car, IMHO. Indeed, I don't recall EVER hearing of people having problems with it in the over two decades and several versions it's been around. One caveat, A4s are not known for neck-snapping acceleration so an un-chipped 1.8T quattro may be a little anemic in that department. The 3.0 quattro would be more balanced IMHO. However, chipping the 1.8T is a way around that problem. Be aware too that there are not a lot of independent mechanics who work on Audis so you might be forced to have work done by the dealer. Nice thing though is the long and comprehensive warranty.
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Hi!
Richard Potato wrote:

Driving a '80 quattro with about 160k miles now the only quattro-related costs I had, were the bulbs for the illumination of the diff-lock switch symbol plate...:)
In my view the "higher consumption because of the AWD" practitcally is a myth. Since you need less braking *before* and (therefore) less acceleration *after* a bend to gain the same *average* speed over a given (twisty) strech of street you actually will use *less* gas than with the FWD version; all else equal of course. I never used more than 5% over the figures for the FWD version of my car, and thats with a tiny 4cyl engine.
If you drive faster -- and you will :) -- it's your problem :-)))
The added weight in my car over the FWD version is 80kg, as much as a passenger. Compare that little more gas for city driving with the absolutely even wear between front and rear tires and you are quit.
So long! Ero.
--
Ero Rademer ANTISPAM in effect.

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My last 3 cars have all been quattro, and I have been more than happy with the fuel consumption,given the performance and handling. All have averaged over 33 m.p.g. (UK Imperial gallons). -- Doug Ramage
***Watch Spam Trap***
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Doug Ramage wrote:

I average about 24mpg in the US with a '99 A4 1.8T quattro with a number of performance modifications (ECU upgrade/exhaust/etc) and "spirited" city/highway driving. On a long highway trip with a light foot, I get about 28mpg.
Cheers,
C
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It appears I'm the one guy who has spent the *most* on Quattro-related expenses here.
The rear differential seals can eventually leak - at around 150K miles, IME and IIRC. It costs about $80/side to replace them. It takes a long time for it to actually damage the car; it won't strand you anywhere, and you should have noticed the drips and fixed it well before that time. You'll only ever do it once per side on a car. All other rear suspension issues (struts, bushings, etc.) you might encounter are similar to those of the FWD cars.
I also have had one Quattro (a '90 90 20V) get loose rear driveshaft splines. I understand this happens in the higher-powered older cars like the turbos and the 20V 5-cylinders with manual transmissions. It's very progressive. I had a noise from 132,000 miles (when I bought the car) that gradually got louder until 178,000 miles (when I sold the car). It is not a debilitating problem, only a growing annoyance. On 3 other older Quattros I've owned, I saw 232,000-266,000 miles with no AWD-related problems other than the diff seals.
That said, I love the Quattro drivetrain and I would *not* consider an Audi without it. -- C.R. Krieger (Been there; done that)
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My last company car was an A6 Quattro which replaced a 2WD A4 - the big A6 gave much better tyre milage and was a much more balanced car to drive fast on twisty roads. In terms of overall cost, I didn't have it long enough (60k miles) to discover whether the drive train was problematic in any way, but I'd have been very surprised indeed if it had given trouble!
The only issue which was drive train related in any way was having to replace ALL four tyres having written one off! The remaining three were all relativly worn and the advice was to change the lot. Whether that was good / accurate / real advice I don't know as I wasn't paying for it at the time. If I were paying for it, I'd have been more concerned.
When finances allow, I'll be back with a Quattro - what superb roadholding it gave!
Mike.

IME
FWD
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There are more CV joints and boots on the quattro. The CV joints as in most cars are pretty much bulletproof UNLESS the rubber boots tear and then dirt in the CV joint will rapidly destroy it just like any FWD car. Other than that, I have driven quattros for 17 years and found them to be trouble-free.
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most
dirt
trouble-free.
the AWD part that is. Other components are less reliable. My 98 A4 offers the renowned old British car feature of external lubrication of the garage floor. I am preparing for a timing belt change at 66,000 miles that the owners' manual says is due at 90,000 miles but which often fails prior to that point taking a variety of expensive engine parts with it. At least my electrical coil has been reliable which is more than can be said for some newer A4s. Good grief, wasn't that technology pretty much perfected a century ago? I will grant that Audi has finally mastered the technology of door handles that don't fall off. I've heard they're now working on tie rod ends and control arms.
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most
dirt
trouble-free.
I agree, the possibility of Quattro failure should not be part of the buying decision. Heck, type in "Quattro failure" into google and see how many failures you can find.
Romy
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snipped-for-privacy@tater.cu (Richard Potato) wrote in message

Your local mech is uninformed. Long-term expense? If you factor in the 5% additional fuel cost, then maybe he'd have a point. Here's something that would blow his mind: In the Seattle/Portland area, the resale value on the quattro cars is so much higher that you come out AHEAD on fuel costs, FWD vs. AWD. If you keep the car a very long time, of course there will be a break-even.
Something not mentioned yet (well, that I haven't seen yet) is the 4-wheel alignment that should be done once every two years or so. The 2WD cars don't need a 4-wheel alignment unless you change suspension bits or hit something.
On the wet side of the Cascades, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a German car indy mechanic. I'm sure it's the same in the Great Wet North.
Considering that the car performs better in slippery conditions, and that you'd be able to avoid an accident better in those once-in-a-blue-moon snowfalls (like this winter) the quattro system might pay for itself the first time out. And then some.
The system is mechanically bulletproof, like the other folks have said. Be careful to look at the CV boots all around, every oil change (whether you change your own oil or not.) If they are whole, your CVs will last damn near forever. Actually, this is good advice for a FWD car as well, but since the quattro has an extra car-end of CV joints...
For me, the A4 1.8Tq has been a wonderful piece of equipment, with no real faults (a few burnt-out bulbs) and has been steadfast in it's winter service, both on snow tires and all-seasons. Warms up quick, gets around in crummy weather, stylish, and quite luxurious for a decent price. Add to that the fact that a light foot gives me about 28mpg (U.S. gallons), I'm damned happy with it. AND, if we ever decide to sell it (over my dead body), we'll at least get double of what a FWD car brings. At least, in SEA/PDX that's about what the differential is for a 7-year old FWD/AWD of same model. About. -- Jonesy
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On 8 Jan 2004 10:59:08 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (Jonesy) wrote:

Thanks. I live north of the Cascades in once a year snow country. Damn stuff.
I am pretty much sold on the A4 1.8T Q; the rubber hits the road this weekend when I will test the FWD and AWD, sequentially. I am not too interested in looking at other vehicles so it will be (hopefully) negotiating the price. That part I wil enjoy.
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Richard Potato wrote:

Not to beat this discussion to death, but one thing that has not been mentioned here is that while you have duplicate drive train components in AWD, you also have on average only 50% of the load. Beyond the uncomplicated, bullet-proof use of a mechanical Torsen center differential in non-TT/non-A3 Audis, *that* is the main reason you see virtually no failures on the drive train components past the transmission on these cars, and it also helps understand the superior thread life on tires and other components.
I am tomorrow replacing my crap Michelin tires after almost 60K miles, just because they would not die (although they became noisy and I have not trusted them after about 20K). The same tires lasted only about 20K on my Golf (10K-15K of that showing halfway acceptable performance).
- D.
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My 18" tyres are now on 30k miles and I have never owned a car that is like this on tyres<good>, there is no need to rotate the tyres on a quattro, they do wear almost perfectly, you do get a little more wear if your one of those people who use the power steering to much while the car is stopped.
My Audi dealer has said he has *never* heard of a quattro drive train going wrong.
I've just passed the 150k mile mark, and it still drives like new its a new a4 quattro.
servicing can be a little more expensive on one point, changing the fuel filter, this is because the quattro has a dual tank design that sits either side of the prop shaft, you dont have this on fwd car, this makes it harder to change. oh and the quattro holds a little less fuel. maybe a gallon less.
some garages will charge you more because it's a "quattro" if they do they are ripping you off, they think they can get away with it being that its the better vehicle of the range, iirc there is no difference in charge for a service from Audi.
ronny
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