RE: 2004 Audi TT

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better
I believe the Torsen center diff in Audi Quattro would compare to the driver adjustable center diff in the WRX. The Audi Quattro electronically locking front and rear diffs would compare with the active diffs on the WRX. I'm sure I would prefer a Torsen to a driver adjustable center diff (since I don't race). I'm also sure that using ABS to make the Audi front and rear diffs maintain grip is a less than perfect solution. What is an active diff as used in the WRX? How does it work?
Aar
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driver
diff
It uses electronics and a computer to mimic a "true" Limited Slip Differential (LSD) under certain circumstances.
It has the benefit of acting like a normal diff in normal use, but of putting power down when you've lost grip on the other wheel on an "axle". Using an LSD on the road isn't that much fun.. although it's a very good way of exploring hedges (if you're into that sort of thing ;o) if you "boot it" on a slippery straight road.
In the wrong hands, think of it as "torque steer on steroids".. very useful for sliding your way around bends though (which looks terribly good, but is usually slower than using a bit of planning and having adequate grip in the first place)
H1K
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way
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Thank you very much. It sounds like a perfect rally car solution.
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What is an active

What kind of diff is it if it's not a "true" limited slip one?

way
it"
While this is true of the diff in the front axle of the new Focus RS, no magazine ever said an Evo was difficult to drive except if you brought it to its very limits, so could you elaborate on that?

useful
is
the
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An electronically controlled one - a "true" LSD is the sort of thing you would see in a 1960s track Mini, and is purely mechanical.

"axle".
to
Sure. A normal diff is used to equalise the speeds of the two wheels as the vehicle describes an arc - basically, the outer wheel has to go a further distance (larger radius), and hence moves faster.
The problem is, if one wheel loses grip altogether, then *all* power is sent to that wheel - the result being that you get bogged-down.
The solution, then is to limit the amount of movement - or "slip" - that the differential will provide. This means that the wheel /should/ no longer spin, but will always supply power to the road.
Of course, this also means that, each time you try to turn-in, you are fighting the LSD. (Bear in mind that I'm not talking pootling to the shops (a Smart would be perfect, if that's all you're looking at doing ;o), but when pressing-on along a track or clear, empty road)
Which is one problem.
The other is that, when, say, you're on an empty road with a slippery surface, one tyre can get momentary grip, causing the car to lurch sideways.
On a sufficiently narrow road (e.g. a Clubman rally), the driver needs supurb reflexes to avoid close inspection of hedges, trees, gullies, etc. It's also the reason why, on jumps, you'll notice that WRC cars tend to lurch sideways on landing much more than a "normal" car.
H1K
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Couldn't agree more on the point you make about the ABS - more brake fade and maintenance expenditure for less grip.
I read something about active diffs in a magazine some time ago and they definitely said that was a much more evolved solution. I'll see if I can find any articles on that.
JP Roberts
pqyMa.126180$ snipped-for-privacy@twister.southeast.rr.com...

driver
diff
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The fact still remains that being the new S4 a good year and a half newer than the M3, they should have come up with something like 40 or 50 more Horses, at least in order to save face, since at Euro 60,000 they are no bargain. Just remember the RS6 is 100k and is a hell lot more of a car which can easily be tuned to the 500-region horseriding land.
In my modest opinion, they are going to sell very few of the new S4s and that's precisely because they offer little if no tunability at all.
My two cents,
JP Roberts
twcKa.70$% snipped-for-privacy@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...

in
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newer
Far from the point I'm making, I'm saying they should have given it a power edge over its BMW competitor.

What I'm saying - if you can still read between the lines, which I doubt - is that the car is clearly overpriced considering you will be stuck at 344 HP with rather a lot of weight.
> > Just remember the RS6 is 100k and is a hell lot more of a car which

This is no idiotic suggestion at all, maybe it is by your standards, but here in Europe people who can afford 60,000 can also afford 100,000, but maybe you can elaborate on your point from an American perspective - I hear a lot of people go leasing in the US.

I do not know that I've been wrong about anything, but if you're planning to buy an S4, let me tell you something: A 225 HP S3 tuned to 300 HP - 450 Nm torque - will beat you every time, everywhere, and at a much cheaper price and petrol expenditure and maintenance.
JP Roberts
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Thanks for an excellent post, Aaron, but the object of tuning as far as I am concerned is to make a good value car - take an 1.8T for example - into a little beast eater. So, with Audi staying away from turbos except in the RS's we can only anticipate the decline of a reasonably-priced Audi empire.
LYIKa.109606$ snipped-for-privacy@twister.southeast.rr.com...

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prestige
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Last time I did the math, 344 > 333.

Then don't buy one. Seems some car rag liked it better than the M3, so at least your opinion counts for something. Or not.

If you have US$30k to spend on a car, that does not immediately suggest that you can afford US$50k. It's just a plain stupid assertion.
Insert $45k and $67k, if it is your wish.

Sure it will. Bench racing is fun.
Spider
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Everybody except apparently you seems to agree that the M3 is much more fun to drive. .

Believe it or not most people who can afford Euro 60k can also affort 100k here. I'm seeing it all the time. Alternatively, I can't see why people who cannot afford 100k would buy a 60 k car.

and
planning to

Nm
price
But regretting your buy is not.
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I was referring to the latest 343PS coupe M3, but I would also add they might possibly be more fun when they work at all - apparently they got a lot of lemon engines.
JP
snipped-for-privacy@mb-m17.aol.com...

fun
havn't
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Most magazines state that while the S4 may be safer and easier to drive, and maybe a tiny bit faster on well-paved fast bends - especially when wet, the M3 is sharper, gives you a better rush of adrenaline and provides more direct feel to the wheels. Now, I believe specialized magazine editors are more creditable than just any given one claiming otherwise.

100k
Sure, especially if they've never test driven an RS and compared that to a "plain" S, which I bet is your position.

Do you happen to be my bank manager by any chance? I never said or implied I could or could not afford anything, so this kind of comment can only make anyone suspect you're the one who is struggling.
While I'd love to have and buy an RS6 right now, and I must say I look up to those who have one like Mr Bell, I'm right now thinking of replacing my '98 1.8TQ with a '04 one, namely the stock 190PS and have it tuned to 270-290PS, which in my case should be nearly enough. Also, I can't wait to see the new DSG implemented in the latest A4. With that and these turbo mods, the A4 could easily do the 0-100 in 5.6 s, which is the same as the new 04 S4. I know the S4 will be on the whole a much better car and more fun to drive, but then again it's going to cost a lot more, and consume accordingly more and I'll really enjoy seeing S4's faces when seeing an apparently plain stock A4 is keeping pace with them.

See above on why you might regret a new S4 not having a turbo.
JP Roberts
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<< With that and these turbo mods, the A4 could easily do the 0-100 in 5.6 s >>
Sorry, C&D tested the B5 S4 at 0-60 in 5.5 and the B6 S4 at 0-60 in 5.2
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That's why Car and Driver chose the new S4 over the M3. I guess, then, that your "most magazines" is just mere hyperbole?

Whether or not you are willing to admit it, some people do actually care how much money they spend on automobiles. The stretch from the most luxurious A4 to the base S4 is not bad. From the S4 to the RS4 is quite large. By your logic, if I can afford an S4, then I can afford an Enzo.

You're a bench racer with a lot of magazines under your arm. If you could afford the cars you were discussing, you'd be out driving one of them. Q.E.D.

But if you can afford all that, then surely you can afford an RS6, right? After all, that's your line of reasoning.
But you say the S4 is a better car. I would agree. The trade-offs you are making might not be the trade-offs that anyone else would make. How much of the engine's lifespan do you think those mods are going to remove? It's a gamble. And after some period of upgrades and repairs, you'll have spent the money equivalent to the S4. For what? A pedestrian A4 1.8T.

I wouldn't regret it for a second. Extracting the very last ounce of performance out of a car is not my style. Especially on a daily driver.
If you have done your research, and know what you want, then you won't be disappointed. Well-informed buyers know the possibilities, and make choices accordingly.
Only a fool would think otherwise.
Spider
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And I quote:
"Everybody except apparently you seems to agree that the M3 is much more fun to drive."
Since you have stated over and over about this being the penultimate reason for buying a car, one must assume that "More fun to drive" "better."
But it's a nice weasel. [snip]

Hardly.
You can state it over and over and it still won't be true. If you can afford a certain thing, it is not immediately evident that you can afford a thing OVER TWICE AS EXPENSIVE. (S4 vs RS6 in the U.S.)

I did.

It does.

It is. Over 90 HP more powerful than it's predecessor.
And 11 HP more powerful than it's direct competetor.
Spider
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and
the
Erm.. except Top Gear? They have a magazine, as well as run a TV programme, y'know ;o)
Incidentally, the last-model M3 inpressed more because of its smoothness around a track, rather than out-and-out performance. IIRC the new model has a smidge more power and a smidge more weight. While spinning wheels and kicking the back end out around corners might look good for magazine photographs, the only reason to do that on a (paved) track is to slow down when you've misjudged the entry speed to a corner.
<snip>

to
'98
270-290PS,
new
Hmm. Looks like you're going to be spending a fair amount of money (not least in insurance, unless the market is /that/ different in the US - in the UK, taking the TTR225 to 270bhp is good for a 20% hike in costs. That gets a /lot/ bigger once the other mods you'll need are fitted.. and you'll need more than a chip - that would simply push that car up to arounf the 230PS mark.
Speaking as someone with a TT in that power range - a lighter car - you are going to have a big shock with that 0-100 figure.
0-100km/h, yes, 0-100mph - wake up, you're dreaming!
H1K
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8UvMa.1490$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...

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Quite, I was thinking 0-100 Km/h, of course. I am not so sure about maintenance costs getting higher but of course you could be right there. Even so, with the full setting up - no need to worry about insurance higher costs here so far - a 270 HP A4 will need a bigger turbo, piping and reprogramming as the stock 190 IC is generally OK, which should cost about Euro 38,000 here. A new S4 will cost 60,000. Now that should be more than double the money needed to cover any extra maintenance. And on that note, S4 parts are always far more expensive than those for plain A4s so I still think basic maintenance is even more expensive for an S car.
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<snip>

higher
S4
Hmm. You seem to have a very cheap tuner in mind.. using the Audi Configurator, the base price of the car (no including options, apparently, although my Spanish is minimal) is EUR32k for what appears to be a 163PS model (!).
That price is starting to look a little tight for a turbo, plumbing, and fitting costs.. don't know any tuners in Spain, so let's take a peep at some UK prices from AmD: OK, turbo upgrade 2500; rechip "from GBP450", typical seems to be GBP700; sports exhaust (cat-back only) GBP405; new (working!) DV, GBP80. Now, let's add the VAT and get GBP3685. Let's assume that the Euro is still as strong against the pound as it is at the moment (unlikely, IMHO), and we get around EUR5250. Without fitting or handling mods.
Not sure how much fitting on that little lot would be (bearing in mind that we've already spent that EUR38k) - probably a couple of thousand Euros. No real information on the handling packages that you'd need to get close to an S4 - just "from GBP1475" [EUR 2100] for the brakes and "from GBP275" [EUR 320] for the springs and dampers.
Add the fact that you've just voided the warranty on your new car in pretty much all areas, and I'd say that you'd probably have to spend EUR45k to mimic an S4.
But that's not all - I don't know the market in Spain, but it's quite hard to sell a heavily modified car over here - it's just too specialist - and you should not expect to claw back a penny (or cent!) that you've spent on the mods - often the reverse.
So, in your effort to be frugal, you've "saved" EUR15k, but will immediately lose a proportional amount of 13k (your car will follow the depreciation of an A4, the S4 will still have residual demand from its rarity).
In other words, this approach may end up /costing/ you money..
..not that I've any problem with this - the world would be a very boring place if everyone thought alike. OTOH, maybe it's a good idea to think again about "your" car being that much cheaper than an S4.
Oh. And there's no guarantee of the power getting close to what you're after, although a full Nitrous kit, custom manifolds, Front-Mounted Intercooler and ceramic cats (call that an additional EUR6000) should get you 350bhp, as measured on B3VES in the UKTTOC. At least in short bursts.
H1K
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