Re: Burning clutch on brand new A4

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One question CR, the way I use the clutch is very similar to what you are mentioning,
although sometimes i do tend to leave the clutch in midrange and depress the gas to get that extra push when teh clutch is released. But the way i drive is that, alltough i lift the clutch relatively fast, I also press the gas very fast, also because i like that extra push (it not like a jerk, but as if the car is anxious to release these horses!). is this a bad thing? also, i tend to rely on reverse gears to slow down much more than brakes, but that often means rpm jumping from 2-3 range to mid 4 to 5 range for a second or two. is this bad for the engine. my car is a BMW 525i Thanks Imad
C.R. Krieger wrote:

</pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">My 20003 A4 quattro is 3 months old and it has 3,000 miles on it.
I was told there that, indeed, it was the clutch and they implied that maybe I was "too heavy on the clutch" and they also implied very politely that maybe I don't know how to drive a car with a stick :-[ For the record - this is my 4th consequitive car with a stick; on my old Maxima SE I did have clutch trouble, but not untill 85,000 miles on the car. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----> Even 85K is quite early for a clutch failure, IME. I'm guessing the service department is correct, but is using the wrong term for your clutch use. It's not "heavy", but rather "tentative". IOW, you spend too much time with the clutch *partly* engaged. That is when the clutch (by design) slips and wears (and gets hot). When you have the pedal to the floor, it's fully disengaged and when you aren't on the pedal, it's fully engaged. Anywhere in between is a Bad Thing (TM).
</pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">What to do? I don't want to drive a car where clutch burned like a bush just because I got stuck in traffic; </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----> One hot clutch incident won't necessarily hurt it very much, but you need to learn how to prevent it in the future. I've been stuck in traffic lots of times (Chicago, NYC, Cleveland, Rome, Munich, etc.), but I've never fried a clutch.
</pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">I live near NYC where one spends more time in traffic than actually driving around :-( Any suggestions and recommendations are appreciated! </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----> You need to learn how to get *on* and *off* the clutch as quickly as possible. That means quickly all the way to the *floor* when you step on it and quickly all the way to the *top* when you get off of it. This doesn't have to be harsh and jerky, but it may take some time to break your old habits. This also doesn't mean you have to drive your car like some old 'Granny'. I'm a driving instructor for both BMW and Audi clubs and I'm not known for 'babying' my cars nor for going slowly, but I *am* known for being very nice to my clutch and brakes. You *can* be fast and smooth, but it takes some concentration and practice until it becomes second nature (it will). -- C.R. Krieger (Been there; spun that) </pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html>
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A Bad Thing.

Probably. The car is just a car and has no need to release anything. What you're feeling is revving the engine too high for your shifts. What is *best* for the clutch is quick, smooth, *full* engagement when the engine and gearbox are turning at about the same speeds. If you start to engage it and then rev the engine before it's fully engaged, you abuse the clutch.

OK; I know you mean *lower* gears, not *reverse* ... so we'll move on:

For this, you get the standard lawyer answer: It depends.
For shifting, if you do not rev the engine between gears to (approximately) match the gearbox speed, you will feel a lurch *and* you will slip the clutch. Those are Bad Things. If you know how to rev match and downshift well, it won't hurt a thing - except:
If you downshift and the engine revs to or beyond its redline, you *can* hurt the engine. In fact, you can effectively destroy it.

Except for the last paragraph, which applies primarily to 'interference engines' (BMWs, Audis, pretty much everything that's really fun to drive), all of this information applies to *all* cars with manually actuated clutches. -- C.R. Krieger (Been there; done that)
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Thanks CR. so basically when i upshift or downshift i have to rev the engine to be approximately the same speed as the gears. I would imagine from this that leaving a gear engaged when going downhill without pressing the gas (to keep the car from speeding up too much) is also a bad thing, right? Imad
C.R. Krieger wrote:
</pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">One question CR, the way I use the clutch is very similar to what you are mentioning, although sometimes i do tend to leave the clutch in midrange and depress the gas to get that extra push when teh clutch is released. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----> A Bad Thing.
</pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">But the way i drive is that, alltough i lift the clutch relatively fast, I also press the gas very fast, also because i like that extra push (it not like a jerk, but as if the car is anxious to release these horses!). is this a bad thing? </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----> Probably. The car is just a car and has no need to release anything. What you're feeling is revving the engine too high for your shifts. What is *best* for the clutch is quick, smooth, *full* engagement when the engine and gearbox are turning at about the same speeds. If you start to engage it and then rev the engine before it's fully engaged, you abuse the clutch.
</pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">also, i tend to rely on reverse gears to slow down </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----> OK; I know you mean *lower* gears, not *reverse* ... so we'll move on: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">much more than brakes, but that often means rpm jumping from 2-3 range to mid 4 to 5 range for a second or two. is this bad for the engine. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----> For this, you get the standard lawyer answer: It depends.
For shifting, if you do not rev the engine between gears to (approximately) match the gearbox speed, you will feel a lurch *and* you will slip the clutch. Those are Bad Things. If you know how to rev match and downshift well, it won't hurt a thing - except:
If you downshift and the engine revs to or beyond its redline, you *can* hurt the engine. In fact, you can effectively destroy it.
</pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">my car is a BMW 525i </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----> Except for the last paragraph, which applies primarily to 'interference engines' (BMWs, Audis, pretty much everything that's really fun to drive), all of this information applies to *all* cars with manually actuated clutches. -- C.R. Krieger (Been there; done that) </pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html>
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Correct.
Actually, no. That is not a Bad Thing at all. It's just engine braking. Just don't go doing it at much over 3-4000 rpm or so. -- C.R. Krieger
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Hi Imad, Do remember what's happening when you press the clutch. You disengage from the engine, change the gear, and on release reengage the transmission to the engine. So, when you ride the clutch the mechanism to engage to the engine, i.e. the clutch plate, skids along getting abraded till the tranmission fully engages. That's pure wear and tear.
The feeling of the engine "releasing its horses" is simply you revving up the engine to a fast enough RPM to engage all at once which does not require riding the clutch. Riding the clutch is not useful. You should engage or disengage decisively or else you will wear out the clutch (plate). Hope this helps, Ali
</PRE> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">My 20003 A4 quattro is 3 months old and it has 3,000 miles on it.
I was told there that, indeed, it was the clutch and they implied that maybe I was "too heavy on the clutch" and they also implied very politely that maybe I don't know how to drive a car with a stick :-[ For the record - this is my 4th consequitive car with a stick; on my old Maxima SE I did have clutch trouble, but not untill 85,000 miles on the car. </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""><!----> Even 85K is quite early for a clutch failure, IME. I'm guessing the service department is correct, but is using the wrong term for your clutch use. It's not "heavy", but rather "tentative". IOW, you spend too much time with the clutch *partly* engaged. That is when the clutch (by design) slips and wears (and gets hot). When you have the pedal to the floor, it's fully disengaged and when you aren't on the pedal, it's fully engaged. Anywhere in between is a Bad Thing (TM).
</PRE> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">What to do? I don't want to drive a car where clutch burned like a bush just because I got stuck in traffic; </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""><!----> One hot clutch incident won't necessarily hurt it very much, but you need to learn how to prevent it in the future. I've been stuck in traffic lots of times (Chicago, NYC, Cleveland, Rome, Munich, etc.), but I've never fried a clutch.
</PRE> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">I live near NYC where one spends more time in traffic than actually driving around :-( Any suggestions and recommendations are appreciated! </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""><!----> You need to learn how to get *on* and *off* the clutch as quickly as possible. That means quickly all the way to the *floor* when you step on it and quickly all the way to the *top* when you get off of it. This doesn't have to be harsh and jerky, but it may take some time to break your old habits. This also doesn't mean you have to drive your car like some old 'Granny'. I'm a driving instructor for both BMW and Audi clubs and I'm not known for 'babying' my cars nor for going slowly, but I *am* known for being very nice to my clutch and brakes. You *can* be fast and smooth, but it takes some concentration and practice until it becomes second nature (it will). -- C.R. Krieger (Been there; spun that) </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Mike Ignatovsky) wrote:

A clutch can burn on a car with 10 miles on it, if it is mistreated!
Unless the clutch slips when the pedal is fully realeased, I would be inclined to agree with your dealer. The clutch will only burn when it is allowed to slip - if you were creeping along in traffic by holding revs and 'riding' the clutch then it would be no surprise if it burnt.
As for replacing the clutch - is there any problem now when driving normally? If not, why should it be replaced?
--
Peter Bell (Note Spamtrap - To reply, replace 'invalid' with 'bellfamily')

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(Mike Ignatovsky) wrote:

Ummm, Peter? You're replying to a long-dead year-and-a-half old thread. -- C.R. Krieger (Thought I'd been here before)
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warp2 snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (C.R. Krieger) wrote:

Argh - I wonder how that happened. My newsreader expires newsgroup postings 14 days after they are received, so it would seem that something had caused that post to be delivered to me on 3 November.
--
Peter Bell (Note Spamtrap - To reply, replace 'invalid' with 'bellfamily')

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