S4

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Just test drove a new S4 6-speed, upstate NY. Ohmygodohmygodohmygod. Want.
-s

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Someone once said it was good to want things ;-)
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wrote:

I agree: wanting things is good. I want an S4, but it will probably be an Ur, or a low mile '01 or '02 B5 S4 in a year or so.
Interesting how Google groups strings together messages with the same subject line stretching back to mid 1999. (take a look)
I drove a new (B6) S4 a few weeks ago, and I'm sorry to say, wasn't as impressed as I thought I would be. I didn't like the fact that the clutch was way too easy to press. I expected neck snapping acceleration, and, as I recall, my old MZ3 coupe (only 240 HP, not the later 315) felt... neck snappier than the S4. (No, this ain't a BMW vs Audi troll... I love 'em both.)
In fairness, I didn't have the opportunity to really give the car a workout, as it was not a test drive at a dealer.
Despite the 4.2 litres, and 40 valves, it seemed that you really had to push the engine to get any kick.
Maybe with Audi offering... gulp... 1.9% financing on S4s, I'll have to test drive one again. But I don't think I could handle the idea of a car with a gas guzzler tax....
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Thompson says...

This is what I call a car review. :)
--
"I think the problem is that it's.. French."
-- Jeremy Clarksons, "Top Gear" Clio V6, Aug '03
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I drove an RS6 two weeks ago. I still haven't gotten over it ! Kevin
Steve Thompson wrote:

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An uncle of mine just bought himself a Jaguar XJR. My grandfather is on his second XJ8 (currently a 2003 model) and my aunt bought an S Type 4.2, so he felt he had to be part of the club, I guess. I drove it, and while it's a very nice car, and certainly fast, it's not in the same league as cars like the M3 and S4, or even the AMG variant of MB's C-Class. I have yet to drive or even sit in the new S4, but I've driven a B5 S4 6-speed and an A6 2.7T (the A6 had some minor suspension upgrades) and found both of them to be much better cars overall than the Jag. Of course, I can't say anything to him because he's convinced it's god's gift to the highway and that there's no reason to look elsewhere.
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his
he
very
M3
TBH, that's not too much of a surprise. What about comparing like-with-like, i.e. the S-Type R?
It has a third more power than the 4.2..
--

Hairy One Kenobi

Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
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<< What about comparing like-with-like, i.e. the S-Type R? >>
He drove one and said that he likes it better in some ways than his XJ, but that he likes the extra space in the larger sedan. IMHO, neither of them can compare to Audi's S-cars. The XKR is neat, but dated, and I have not yet seen or heard about any comparison between it and the S4 cabrio.
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Steve Grauman wrote:

A "poor man's" compromise might be a modified Audi A6. I drove a recent vintage A6 not long ago that had APR's 2.7T "stage 3" engine tuning. It was an absolute beast. The owner claimed (and seems to be supported by APR's propaganda) that horsepower was in the 400-420hp range and torque was approaching 500ft/lbs. Yowza!
I figure about US$25k for a clean car + about US$8k for the kit plus extras. A bit more reasonable than the US$80-90k for an RS6.
http://www.goapr.com/Audi/products/stage3_27tko4.html
I'll be trading up from my modified A4 to this setup for the new "family car" soon. 8-)
Cheers,
C
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<< A "poor man's" compromise might be a modified Audi A6. I drove a recent vintage A6 not long ago that had APR's 2.7T "stage 3" engine tuning. It was an absolute beast. The owner claimed (and seems to be supported by APR's propaganda) that horsepower was in the 400-420hp range and torque was approaching 500ft/lbs. Yowza! >>
The A6 2.7T is a fantastic car even stock. 0-60 in 6.6 (with tip) is hardly slow for a medium-large sedan with AWD. Sadly, even the used ones carry a premium here in the U.S. and chip-tuning voids all warranty.
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On 04 Jan 2004 04:47:56 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Steve Grauman) wrote:

But, practically speaking, the same used ones are or soon will be off warranty anyway...
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Steve Grauman wrote:

You obviously wouldn't do this to a new car unless you didn't care about the warranty. Also, if there is a warranty claim, the stealership would have to prove your modifications are the cause of the problem.
Cheers,
C
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<< Also, if there is a warranty claim, the stealership would have to prove your modifications are the cause of the problem. >>
My local dealers have a way of finding loopholes to void warranty claims. I have a feeling VW instructs them to do so.
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but
can
seen
Interesting that you say that.. IIRC if you drive the specification (rather than the car!) they're a lot closer that you might think. Particularly with the Jag being about 100kg heavier.
OTOH - and on the track - a Top Gear comparison (UK TV programme, pretty much an institution over here) rated the S4 above the current M3 for handling.
As I said, not having a go at the S4, but also trying to compare like-with-like.
--

Hairy One Kenobi

Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
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<< IIRC if you drive the specification (rather than the car!) they're a lot closer that you might think. Particularly with the Jag being about 100kg heavier. >>
In terms of 0-60 performance, yes. Although a WRX Sti, Lancer EVO, or Lotus Elise will be faster than either of them to 60 for far less money. So if that's your only concern, you may want to pocket the extra cash. In terms of handling and driving dynamics, the S4 is a superior car. The M3 is the only car of this general type which can give the S4 a real run, and according to Car and Driver and (as you noted) Top Gear, the S4 is better dynamically around a track.
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with
Lotus
..and top speed, and cornering g. Didn't see any figures for braking force, though (IIRC, the Jag has four-pot Brembos, so the relative performance could be closer than the weight difference would normally allow)
The Elise is a beautiful car to drive, but isn't exactly in the same league (or possible even sport ;o) when it comes to touring characteristics. Or top speed.

handling
this
Driver
Neither come remotely close to (e.g.) an Ultima, but that's not comparing like-with-like, either ;o)
H1K
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<< Neither come remotely close to (e.g.) an Ultima, but that's not comparing like-with-like, either ;o) >>
We could drag all kinds of these cars into the debate. Caterham Super 7s, various Lotus, the Ultima, etc...But as you said, it's not really a like comparison. I'd love to see a head to head comparo between the S4, Lancer EVO, and WRX STi, including same-day, same-track times for all 3 cars.
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comparing
EVO,
Well, indeed..
Still miss the '7' ;o)
Let's just leave it as "S4 blows M3", "Jaguar - film at eleven" (sad attempt at American joke? If it falls flat then a) I'm not all that surprised, b) sorry, and c) let's get back to talking about cars ;o)
H1K
P.S. Did you look-up the stats on the Ultima? I have to say that it's undoubtedly the most interesting (ground-based!) vehicle that I've ever been given a lift in...
P.P.S. That most certainly wasn't an instruction or hint! Just curious...
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<< Let's just leave it as "S4 blows M3", "Jaguar - film at eleven" (sad attempt at American joke? If it falls flat then a) I'm not all that surprised, b) sorry, and c) let's get back to talking about cars ;o) >>
It's funny. Although don't feel bad that it isn't a laugh riot, any attempt I could make at European humor would fail glamorously I'm sure. All in all, I think the S4 is the best sports-sedan money can buy. I know that the Alfa GTA is a fairly well respected driver's car but I can't imagine it's anything like an S4.
<< P.S. Did you look-up the stats on the Ultima? I have to say that it's undoubtedly the most interesting (ground-based!) vehicle that I've ever been given a lift in... >>
I saw an article about it in one of the U.K publications (EVO?) a few months back and skimmed it. That's most certainly an interesting car! Although I've never had the benefit of a ride in it. There's another company, U.K. based I believe, that makes an open-wheel 2-seater a la' Caterham, but the company name escapes me. Any idea who it is?
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attempt
attempt I

I
GTA
like
Not even close (sorry - RWD/AWD bigot - you can make an FWD car act like it [e.g. last-model Elan], but, IMHO, you're better off making the bestest FWD vehicle that you eveer diid seeee [sorry - too much time watching Bugs Bunny cartoons as a kid!])
Which Alfa do rather well. If you're ever over this side of the pond, look-up Minari - they take the basic formula and add a GRP [open-top] monocoque. If you happen to be exiting the pit lane at Mallory Park at the time, then there are few more fun things you can do with a) your trousers on, and b) without being arrested.

been
months
I've
I
name
Possibly. In terms of press coverage, the Ariel Atom is more probably more likely than the (much!) better-selling Westfield, Ronart, etc.
(Factoid: you can't get a true open-wheeled car over here - IIRC, these were banned in 1982)
Back to the Ultima: I was privileged to be driven by Ted himself in the (at the time) "beta version" GTR - bear in mind that he was a customer who did a "Remington" and bought the company.
It got *very* up-close-and-personal as the six-point harness was tightened. (Possibly something to do with me chatting-up his missus for an hour or more in an attempt to get a drive around the circuit. [I can be-silent-for-England in the same that the cricket team can play-for-England. Nuff said] ;o)
Anyways. I still got lifted *completely* clear of the seat under braking. The former (slow?!?) demonstrator was measured at 0-175mph-0 in 14.5 seconds by Kit Car International magazine.
<Pauses to wipe drool off of the keyboard ;o) >
Anyway.
If you can come up with a rough description of the shape of the car (or even the colour, if it's a recent article), I'll have a go at identifying it. If it looks like this:
http://www.codecutters.org/gallery/photo.html?fname=Westfield%20with%20weather%20gear.jpg
then it's either a Caterham or another Lotus-7-a-like.
If it looks like this:
http://www.codecutters.org/gallery/photo.html?fname=Building%20a%20Midtec%20is%20a%20very%20serious%20business.jpg
then one of us should probably looking at changing our brand of Aspirin ;o)
Mind you, same designer as the Ultima, and annoyed the wotsit out of a full-race Gardner-Douglas cobra around the Donington race circuit. Guy Croft (yes, /him/) in the driving seat. A fair bit cheaper, too!
H1K
P.S. Steve, thank-you very much for taking my words as they were intended - as one car-nut to another!
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