TT roadster design flaw

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Hate it that you can't have the window open when raining without water dripping into the car. The water accumulating on the ragtop rolls off and if this occurs near an open window, the water drips into the car instead of out
and down the side of the car. Bad design flaw for an otherwise phenominal car
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You'll find that this is the same for *all* cars that lack a rain gutter - in other words, pretty much anything designed in the last two decades.
A bummer for smokers..
--

Hairy One Kenobi

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That's not a design flaw. It's a *perception* flaw - yours. Deal with it, whiner. -- C.R. Krieger (Surprisingly unsympathetic for early Monday morning)
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warp2 snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (C.R. Krieger) wrote in message

Ouch.
I like it - abuse 'em some more.
;)
Spider
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Yea, figures that some dufus would say to just keep the window shut. Methinks you misunderstand....yes, drops can come in from the rain. I am talking about water that accumulates on the ragtop and then drops down into the cabin. Sorry, but I do occasionally like to have the window open in light rain. No, I do not smoke. I've had numerous cars.....usually keep a car for 2 years and then get another one...something I've been doing for the past 30 years. My A4 does not have this problem. None of my other cars had this problem (though I note it is my first ragtop). Overall an amazing car though a little underpowered. Am thinking of going the route of an SLK320 or 350Z/ragtop next....zoom zoom zoom.
Toodles......

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Thanks for the suggestion H1K. Yes, a minor issue to be sure but it's nice to get some fresh air in via the windows when raining....without getting a puddle accumulate inside (and on to my baseball optic interior). If I did not have a ragtop I'd never own a TT....the perfect 9and painful) definition of a COUPE with them tiny windows (and no sunroof). Oooops....methinks I have flamed the hardtoppers.....LOL.
Cheers,
Geekapoo

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Yes, about as phenomenal as your spelling. The TT is a piece of overpriced overstyled excuse for a cut down Golf. Audis worst car of recent times. Should have been shot at the drawing board, with the designer.
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At least do your research first and get the correct floorpan[1] ;o)
Betcha even think that it's made in Germany..?
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Hairy One Kenobi

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I'm not sure where it was made, but was it designed in a hair salon? :)
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Dan



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Yes. The one next-door to the wine bar.

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Oh dear. For a TT to be quick it needs mods. For a TT to not kill people it needs recalls, ESP, spoilers.
The TT was a poorly engineered car from the outset, not worthy of the Audi badge, should have been sold as a seat product. In fact the Leon is the best small car in the VAG. How they screwed up when the rest of the audi range is actually not bad I don't know.
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For a TT to be quick enough to justice to the chassis, yeah. Doesn't need them, in the same way that you might prefer an unmodded 850 Mini over an Ultima.. As goes the "safety" mods..
If you head back through the TT Forum archives, you'll see there was a roaring trade in the older suspension - the feel is much, much better, and there's less understeer.
Personally, I leave the ESP turned off at all times - I had a bad experience on a wet roundabout, where the box of tricks decided that I actually wanted to go forwards. Hence that's the first button I push after starting the engine (I ordered a Mk.I, but only the Mk.II was available on delivery)
No idea what the spoiler does - I haven't seen wind tunnel results - be the car is perftectly stable up to an indicated 155mph (147mph true, according to my GPS). That's significantly better than my last-model BMW, which used to get /very/ floatly between 120-130mph indicated (and probably a fair bit lower in real life - 145 indicated was "about" 131mph true)
Naturally, the spolier doesn't even come into play on UK roads..

On what grounds? That you can't turn hard right in fog, on a wet Autobahn at 100mph+?
You can't do that in a Pug 205, either (I would give a better example, but I'm not too familiar with well-handling hot hatches out there these days - which of 'em give you lift-off oversteer on demand? Any of 'em?)
The only real flaws that I've found in three years are the electrical gremlins apparently common to all cars in the VAG stable. Oh, and the OEM ContiSport tyres - utter crap.
Very chuckable, and rarely embarrassed by my friend's 'Blade (well, when he has a pillion and is not on a dead straight road ;o) Leaves him for dead at the bends near Overton, Hamps (not sure where you are in the country)
Can you say the same for your Vauxhall Zafira? ;o)
H1K
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And the average hairdresser that bought them couldn't cope. Like the current MR2, at first release they all left the road backwards. And the S2000. Note how the MGF has been set up to understeer. Understeer is what people understand.

eh??? But the point of ESP is to ensure you are stable. If driving like a nut and you know what you're doing it needs to be off or you cannot control the car how you want to. Mr average hairdresser needs to have the button removed...

My current Volvo is dead stable at an indicated 150 (not had enough road to take it further yet), about 135-140 true. No-one would consider that a performance car and yet they make TTs with less power. Most comfort oriented cars get floaty at high speed. The Mk1 TT appears to have suffered somewhat from the body being shaped like an aerofoil.

of course...

The TT just feels crap to drive at speed. It's cramped, uncomfortable, noisy. All things you expect of a sports car, not a car that drives like a warm hatch.

Since when has lift-off oversteer been a desirable thing?? The 205 was as bad a design as the TT and probably killed more people. Currently most hot hatches just tuck back in when you lift mid bend, which is what the TT does (now) so that's why I say why bother! You can provoke (trail brake) the Leon to go sideways.

Continental Sport Contact II are great though.

Wouldn't try and take on a TT in the Zaf. Although I reckon the Zaf Turbo is as quick as a 150 or a 180 TT point to point on average roads. My Volvo will stick with a TT180 through most roads on a dry day. 225 out drags me, but then mines only 180bhp. Raced a T5 auto against a 225 manual and blew him away, as I did in an MGF Trophy. I just do not see why anyone wants a pseudo-sportscar design accident that drives as crap as it looks.
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Oh dear. Thought we were on an enthusiast's froup, here.

Ah.
Um.
If you're claiming that your Volvo doesn't experience a "float", then I suggest that you retry and evaluate. At a higher speed.

Interesting.. you're specifically claiming that you've driven a TT? Which type? There are only four combinations to try for, so it should be fairly easy to remember. Ditto that warm hatch you're referring to...

Oh dear. To us old farts, RWD is luvverly, and the control that you can get while transiting a bend is desirable. Learning to conserve momentum is fine when you're dealing with a 1950s vehicle, but not quite as necessary on modern cars. Please explain why on-demand oversteer is A Bad Thing (tm)

Beg to disagree. YMMV, given a different vehicle. S03's are a great improvement when on the TR.

<Chortle>
Leaving aside that you're dealing with a TTR270 here, rather than a 180, I'd seriously doubt that you'd get further than "The car in front's a Toyota. Wish it'd get out of the f**king way"
If you /could/ out-do an 225 wit a MGF then, well, he/she either deserved it or you were in the way ;o)
H1K
P.S. How do you define "blew away"? 1.2 Nova Traffic Light Wars or M25 in traffic? Or.. dare I say it..? A decent road that requires driving awareness and skill? Should beat me hands-down, as I only consider myself "average" ;o)
P.P.S "Blew the doors off" was - I thought - a more emotive phrase. "Racing" is for tracks or Santa Pod ;o)
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Enthusiasts of a manufacturer that makes no rear wheel drive cars...

Yep. TT225 Roadster, it belonged to a colleague, I bought a Rover 75 V6 manual at the same time. Had them for two years drove them both. Also drove the TT225 coupe a few times. Drives very much like a Golf GTI Turbo (but with more lag and more ultimate go) at legal speeds. Seat Leon Cupra is better to drive, more fun and probably as fast point to point, not driven the new one with the 225 engine.

On-demand is not, as long as it's at the demand of the driver, not at the whim of the chassis. RWD is luvverly, which is why the MGTF is more of a sports car than the TT. And probably why I anhialated (sp?) the TT cross country in an MGF.

Found SCII to be great all rounder, low noise, high grip. Not tried S03 but they are reported to be good.

I'm only average - but the MGF Trophy on the road was definitely faster than the TT (we swapped cars and the MG was still quicker) - less weight, no AWD, no electric hood, no aircon admittedly, but also 10 grand cheaper. Speed into and out of corners was higher, shorter gearing made acceleration roughly the same. TT felt bad under those conditions being pushed so hard. The T5 just romped away on the straight bits, passed him on a long straight bit but admittedly he'd catch on the corners.
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Hmm. Have you spotted a trend since 1935 (IIRC), or are just trolling? ;o)
I moved from RWD to AWD (admittedly with a FWD Mini Scamp in the mix there somewhere). Like RWD, prefer AWD in most day-to-day circumstances.
<snip>

That sounds more like a driver boast, TBH. I've frequently annihilated MGFs in my old Westfield, and the TT leaves the Westie for dead.
Nothing to do with handling, I hasten to add - just sheer grunt. Both smaller cars have the significant advantage of much less weight, but lose out both on track-style late braking (prefer the "safely fast" mantra, but let's be honest - the TT stops in a fraction of the distance or either car) and in getting the power down past the apex.
As you said, the TT's a GT rather than a sports car, but it doesn't stop it being quite rapid when competently driven. If you don't mind being brutal, then the TT will have significantly higher entry and exit speeds. As I said, I prefer the smooth approach..
<snip>

I find it very difficult to believe the bit about speed, unless the TT driver was being *very* conservative. As goes the straights.. hmm.. what gearchange points during acceleration?
http://tinyurl.com/kp89 for a standard engine (note how low they are!), and http://tinyurl.com/kp8b for a chipped.
As goes cornering - despite the very high levels of grip, (in general) if you aren't in a controlled drift then you can go faster.
Note that you can only do this with ESP turned off - if you leave it switched on, then it'll have something to say about things, and will activate brakes and cut power as it sees fit. You /did/ have it turned off, didn't you..?
As goes bang-for-buck then, yes, of /course/ there are more cost-effective cars. Starting with that Mini 850. How fast would an MGF have to go to beat a 150 Mini on a tight-and-twisty? ;o)
On a more serious note, a four grand Westfield would leave it for dead at anything up to about 75mph (where the brick-outhouse aerodynamics come into play). And that's also ten grand cheaper ;o)
H1K
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day-to-day, unless you're madder than I am (unusual...) front/rear/all makes little difference. Only when on track or pressing on hard on road will there be any advantage.

<thanks for the sp> Isn't a Westfield a lightweight Seven type thing with a V8 motor???

Didn't notice the MGF Trophy (AP brakes as standard) suffering on braking, or on nailing the power from the apex.

I don't think so. I think entry speeds of the TT are good, but exit crippled by turbo lag and mass.

Unsure - I drove the TT hard, probably upchanging at 5-6, the MGF was run to the redline (7000 iirc) but it's a while ago now!

Heh - chiptuning, the best thing about turbo motors...

I'll be honest, yes and no. If owner wasn't around I'd turn it off... But I think he always left it on.

heh! I used to love the mini, ours was a 1000 I think. How awfully unrefined compared to modern stuff though!

Where can I buy a new Westfield for 4 grand?
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Hmm. Wouldn't say that - more of a balance thing. True, there are FWD cars where it's hard to tell whether you're being pushed or pulled, but it's usually fairly easy to tell once you start accelerating out of a bend (thinking chiefly of the ratio of grip between steering and acceleration)

Yep - a bit too close to the Lotus 7 S3 for Caterham's comfort. The SE was the result, looking a little bit different and with a better chassis (e.g. welded rather than brazed) http://tinyurl.com/kqqo is the nearest thing that I have to a picture on the site.
The SEiGHT is the V8 monster; mine was a lot more circumspect - an SE with a four-pot developing 128bhp (not that bad for a 29 year old engine ;o) Dry weight a tad over half a ton, and wet weight not much more (you don't get far on the "touring" tank ;o) 60 in five seconds dead.

Not suffering.. but not as extreme as the TT, I'd say. IIRC, talking standard cars, only the a Porsche stops more rapidly (hence it being a fairly popular mod). More on the power in a minute..

Mass, yes, but no turbo lag! On my chipped varient, there's a significant drop below 3000rpm (I prefer the peakier performance to the fat 'n' lazt standard approach - reminds me more of a tuned normally-aspirated engine ;o). The close-ratio box means that you have a fairly ample chance of finding yourself in the right gear, and of finding a more appropriate one if required.
4000-5500rpm is my preferred range. There's a small (260->250 ft-lb) drop between second and third (corresponding to about 55mph), but that's about it.

Believe it or not, that's a little high - the torque starts tailing quite rapidly from about 5000rpm (at 6500rpm, f'instance, torque has fallen from a peak of 220 to 180 ft-lb).
The K-series, of course, will happily have its nuts revved off (always did like that engine - shame that Rover didn't allow it to develop its promise)

Makes a big difference - I'd also think that probably accounts for the poor exit speed (on a typical British lane, the bumpy surface would have it activating brakes and cutting power all over the shop)

Oh yes. You only have to drive one to see how far we've come. And, perhaps, how much we lost on the way (e.g. the current Polo is larger than the original Golf)

New, you can't. Second hand, you can. (Yes, I know that we were talking about /new/ prices, but most kits are owner built). If you're talking new and unsullied (i.e. less than 500 dry miles), then realistically you're looking at around 10k for a pristine example (Vauxhall or Zetec), or about 12,500 for a V8.
(I was planning to drop in a few links, but NTL's DNS seems to have given up the ghost again & I can't remember the exact site that I used to look at)
H1K
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60-0 - Audi TT 2.5, MGTF 135 2.6, MGTF 160 / trophy 160 has bigger brakes and tyres as standard, can't find figures for it. Also according Autocar, Jag S type , Renault Laguna, TVR Tuscan, Westfield FW400 and MG ZT do 2.5, Merc SL500, Porsche Boxster S / 911 Turbo do 2.4.

Ahhh... chipped....

But it's power that counts with accelleration, where's peak power for the TT?

K is a cracker of an engine range, small, light, rev-o-matic. I've read somewhere that the 5 valve head in the VW lump is actually quite restrictive.

Sign of poor suspension control - if wheel were maintaining contact with the ground then the ESP would do very little.
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