TT roadster design flaw

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eh?
What happens when it becomes slightly slippy when you're coming out of a corner then?! Although saying that all modern RWD cars seem to be set up to understeer anyway. I'm itching to get a RWD 'old skool' car, just need some money :(
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This is both their strength and their weakness. To most people going from a RWD, the current 3-series feels broadly similar. Now if the driver concerned isn't an especially keen driver, they'll never ever know what the differences in handling are _until_ the first wintery frost.
My boss has a nice metallic grey 320d Tourer. He didn't know it was rear wheel drive (not even the tyre wear gave it away) but was protesting that it was "all over the place" in the frost, and "the ESP does nothing."
If you're gung-ho, it's possible to get them to behave as old school rear wheel drive machines, and the bosses diesel estate did give a little (wonderful diesel charge!) wriggle on a roundabout . . . but that said, they feel very much diluted.
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The DervMan
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errrrr, keep going down :)

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<snip>

Robin Hoods and Locusts come in a lot cheaper than that - but, as with most things, you can often get what you pay for. An enthusiast-built Locust is probably the better choice (ducks behind parapet ;o)
Did the swap in the middle of a stream of cold winters, back when everyone was talking about the possibility of running into a new Ice Age. Ten years on, apparently it's Global Warming. Hmm.
H1K
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Now you see mate, i was with you up until the above point :) You flaw your entire argument by disagreeing with ever other car enthusiast in the world and claiming that, for its time, the 205 wasn't the best handling hot hatch available.
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Dan



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It was the most dangerous hot hatch available. And French.
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If you have any sense of how to really drive a car you can use the 'dangerous' handling traits in your favour. Guess you're not quite experienced enough as a driver. Better stick with your volvo and all its fancy electronic gubbins.
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Hmmmm - XR4x4 owner for three years, I think I qualify.
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Oh no, dont mention a French car to Mr Kemp. He's of the utterly ridcuolous opinion that 205s do not handle very well. He has forgotten what real cars are liked because he's been cocooned away in his safe 'family cars' for too long ;)

ah a local boy. i'm from Totton, but occasionaly do road ralies up round there!
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na na na na naaaaaaaaaa na :P
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don't, haven't, have not.
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Is that going to be standard, or is the V6 TT going to come from the factory normally aspirated?
Peter
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The V6 comes normally aspirated, and with not much of a hike in power or torque.
OTOH, you lose the lag as well.. I'm sticking with the chipped turbo for the moment ;o)
H1K
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regardless what some of you may think about TT's, I've had my 225 Quatro coupe for 2 years & I love it. Granted, there are faster cars out there, but no matter what you drive, there's always something faster.I've owned many 2 seaters ( & yes i'm aware the coupe isn't a 2 seater so save your wise remarks). not all cars need to be fast to be enjoyable & i enjoy mine.
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Therein is the point of the TT. It's a car that anybody can feel good in, providing they like the car and the image.
For the keener driver, they perform well within certain limits, and certainly if you're law abiding, should be just fine.
For the more enthusiastic of us, and in some respects like the current crop of BMW and Mercedes Benz equivalents, they feel somewhat castrated.
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I can agree up to a point - the Mk.I was a very different beast, feel-wise.
With the extra power of a chip, however, even the Mk.II becomes a lot easier to exploit.
It's a long way from being the best handling car on the planet, and, as you say, there's the current handling trend of 8/10s.. 9/10s.. "where'd the road go?" to contend with. That said, as a package, it holds together pretty well. Provided you turn off the ESP ;o)
Maybe time to start a more general thread on best/sweetest/fastest cars, handling-wise? One's that people have driven, that is - no magazine quotes! ;o)
H1K
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Heh! But it's subjective, though. My own preference puts handling and ride composure _way_ above power and linear performance, but this has been tempered by my wife's age and inexperience behind the wheel in the UK (insurance!). She did have a 5.0 litre, rear wheel drive V8 back in California, which although was probably only in the low 200 PS class, or maybe high 100s, had shed load of torque and was a proper old school ass-out handler. I found it wayward in the wet . . .
Best handling machine I've driven? Difficult, because I always take time to get into a machine, and harder still when you realise how expensive some are. :( But it's either the mark one MR2, or the Lotus Elise. Should be the Elise, but I have spent considerably more time behind the wheel of the MR2! I've not explored the bosses' M5's handling limits . . . oddly enough . . .
So at the moment, we're running the Ford Ka, which has handling qualities way ahead of the donk . . .
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<much snippage>

I know what you mean about the original MR2 (although I've only been a passenger in one) - the Elise, though.. if I'd been given the chance to drive one around Hethel /before/ ordering the TT, I might have had a more difficult choice ;o) The Lotus is better at coping with the poorer road surfaces we have locally, making it a better all-rounder than the Westfield/Caterhams, albeit at (much!) higher cost and lower outright performance.
I'd also put the Ultima up there (although, again, I've just been a passenger in one - but a passenger who kept an eye on the speedo to see the awesome cornering speeds on quite bumpy country roads. Plus brakes that lift you entirely out of the seat, even with a *correctly* adjusted 6-point harness) Cost is, of course, a bit of a problem ;o)
The Midtec Spyder - another Lee Noble creation, but with a case of the uglies - gets similar performance low-speed (<100mph) with a more Sevenesque weight. The Minari is similar, but I've only tried that on a smooth track, not the road.

In terms of "sweet" handling (not necessarily neutral, but with the driver able to position the car exactly where he or she wants), I'd also include the older Mini, and, perhaps surprisingly, the MGB.
Slow, yes, but you could position them both precisely on (e.g.) the entry to a bend, know exactly what they were doing while going round it, and be able to adjust the attitude at any point. The 205 GTi was famous for that as well, with the 1.6 being considered a little "purer" than the 1.9 - the larger-engined variant has a reputation for being faster, but less dynamically adjustable (only been a passenger in the 1.9).
I guess what I'm saying is that you can have enjoyable handling without necessarily aiming at perfection.
Haven't tried the Ka, but I'd imagine that it falls more in this sort of category. This would make it quite an exception to many modern cars, that effectively let you do what you want, then succumb to violent breakaway at the limit, and often with little warning. Well, that's the excuse that people seem to use most often ;o)
H1K
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LOL!!
Talking of turbodiesels and quick cars. Well, talking of turbodiesels - anyone know how much a 2.5TDI 140bhp 5-pot lump can be tuned up to just with a chip? What about going to extremes - anyone know what the most anyone's ever got out of that engine before, reliably? (Cue reply from Spider calling me selfish for wasting everyone's time when I could have just looked it up on google).

Well I made it to the end anyway!
Peter
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Sounds good - do you know if there was much of a fuel economy penalty?
Anyway, first things first - I haven't bought it yet, and even when I do, I think it'll go at least a few months to a year before I bugger with it (apart from silly little things like changing the oil).
Peter
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