You've taken my quote out of context. I was meaning they can be *made* in near any colour temperature. The legality or otherwise is a different issue.
Again, out of context. The discussion was of 'red' halogens versus 'blue' discharge.
I'd say you have a rather typical view from some that the energy consumption of car lighting doesn't matter.
Automotive makers the world over have been proved to pay scant attention to such things until pushed into it by legislation, etc.
This lamp uses a power of bulb that is illegal for road use in many countries.
SNIP
Maybe I'm missing something, but I checked a couple of cars at BMWNA and Bi Xenon wasn't listed. IIRC, it was offered on most of their cars around 2003 (not the E39, however). A friend's E65 7 series had them ... now its listed with adaptive xenon. I wouldn't be surprised if they were withdrawn (at least from the US market) because of their potential to dazzle oncoming cars. (As well as our propensity to not dip hi beams to oncoming traffic ... and failure to signal turns, hog the left lane and other pecularities of US driving.)
My bad on the filament comment. HID is an arc lamp.
BMW has a (rare) retrofit kit that puts HID driving lights in place of the fogs on the E39. Of course, you lose the (on 2nd gen E39) rather weak fogs, they're not auto-leveled, and the switch implementation is a bit cludgy.
I wouldn't mind going with a bit more output on my hi beams. I do a lot of rural driving and its BLACK out there. A bit more light down the road wouldn't hurt. Will the 65W Osram bulb improve my hi beams?
R / John
Oh, would you? Well, me, I'd say I didn't see you at the V.I.S.I.O.N. automotive lighting research and development symposium last week in Rouen. And, come to think of it, I don't recall seeing you at the GRE (Groupe de Rapporteurs d'=C9clairage, the UN international working group on automotive lighting regulation) meeting in Geneva or ISAL (International Symposium on Automotive Lighting) in Darmstadt last autumn, or at any of the National Academy of Sciences Transportation Research Board annual conferences over the last five years. I'm sure you attended at least some of these...right? So, you would've participated in at least some of the same roundtable discussions, heard some of the same paper presentations, gone on some of the same night demonstration drives, reviewed some of the same data, spent time talking with the same researchers, regulators, scientists, R&D chiefs...
.=2E.oh, you weren't at any of those? Fancy that.
Mm.
DS
Wrong. The H1 bulb was the world's first automotive halogen bulb, introduced and homologated in Europe in 1962 and first permitted in the US in 1993. The isoscan in question was taken of a lamp equipped with a
12v 55w H1 bulb bearing both ECE-approval and DOT-certification. Bulb wattage ratings such as "12v 55w" are NOMINAL ratings. Under ECE R37, the maximum permissible ACTUAL wattage of a "12v 55w" H1 bulb is 68w at 13.2v. Under US 49CFR564, the maximum permissible ACTUAL wattage of a "12v 55w" H1 bulb is 65w at 12.8v. These requirements are practically identical; the difference in permissible range is created by the difference in test voltage specification.Line voltage in a running automobile is typically between 13 and 14, so this isoscan was taken at 13.5v so as to most accurately reproduce performance in service. Remember, tungsten filament power (wattage) varies exponentially to the approximate power 1.6 with changing voltage:
W =3D w(V' =F7 V)^1.6
The H1 bulb in this particular lamp was consuming 63w at 13.5v. Run the numbers:
W =3D 63(13.2 =F7 13.5)^1.6
W =3D 60.77 @ 13.2v
The AFS (Advanced Frontlighting System, a/k/a "adaptive Xenon") lamps are almost all based on BiXenon optics.
Mostly, they are just being marketed differently.
They are subject to the same intensity regulations as halogen high beams, so -- legally speaking -- there is no greater potential for dazzle with Xenon high beams than there is with halogen ones.
...and "driving" (auxiliary high beam) lamps really need to be mounted up at/near headlamp height in order to be of much use at all. The low-mount location is well suited to fog lamps, but not at all to "driving" lamps. Auto-levelling doesn't apply (legally) to high-beam lamps anywhere in the world; they're usually just along for the ride.
Yes, it would help. One of the problems with US headlamp regulations is the unreasonably low axial intensity limit of 75,000 candela. The international ECE regulations permit double that intensity. As a result, many setmakers simply de-focus their ECE high beam optics for the North American market, giving the effect of a ring of light with a relative dark spot in the middle (think of those adjustable handheld flashlights you can twist to go from a spot beam to a "flood" beam, the latter of which always has a black hole in the middle). BMW's lamps don't exhibit this effect to nearly the degree some other makers' lamps do.
DS
Potential be damned, they're blinding. Why is that?
Wrong. The H1 bulb was the world's first automotive halogen bulb, introduced and homologated in Europe in 1962 and first permitted in the US in 1993. The isoscan in question was taken of a lamp equipped with a
12v 55w H1 bulb bearing both ECE-approval and DOT-certification. Bulb wattage ratings such as "12v 55w" are NOMINAL ratings. Under ECE R37, the maximum permissible ACTUAL wattage of a "12v 55w" H1 bulb is 68w at 13.2v. Under US 49CFR564, the maximum permissible ACTUAL wattage of a "12v 55w" H1 bulb is 65w at 12.8v. These requirements are practically identical; the difference in permissible range is created by the difference in test voltage specification.Line voltage in a running automobile is typically between 13 and 14, so this isoscan was taken at 13.5v so as to most accurately reproduce performance in service. Remember, tungsten filament power (wattage) varies exponentially to the approximate power 1.6 with changing voltage:
W = w(V' ÷ V)^1.6
The H1 bulb in this particular lamp was consuming 63w at 13.5v. Run the numbers:
W = 63(13.2 ÷ 13.5)^1.6
W = 60.77 @ 13.2v
All high beams are blinding by simple dint of intensity. That's why they're illegal for use in traffic. For spectral factors, see my previous post.
DS
The HIR bulbs are more efficient (more lumens per watt) and produce more light than H1 bulbs. They give a scarce combination of high output
*and* long life -- that's why they're expensive; magic does not come cheaply! However, the two types can only be compared on a conceptual level for they are not physically interchangeable. The HIR1 bulbs can be modified to fit in place of 9005 (HB3) bulbs, and the HIR2 bulbs can be modified to fit in place of 9006 (HB4) bulbs in HEADLAMPS (not fog lamps -- way too much glare), but that is the extent of the non-spec swap potential for these bulbs. No H1 swaps, no H7 swaps, etc.Candlepower
Agreed!
DS
Fine. And you still say the tungsten bulb will be with us forever? Have you not considered the safety angle of replacing them with LEDs for tail lights, etc?
When discharge headlights first appeared they were a rare and expensive option on luxury cars. Now you'll find them available on shopping hatches. It doesn't take too much foresight to see the price dropping 'till they are standard on most cars. Might not be good news for aftermarket sales of headlights etc, though.
How many lumens per watt? Comperable to fluorescent or mercury vapour or hihg presure sodium? Or are they still in the halogen range?
How do they work?
Please don't put words in my mouth-wait til after the first date, thanks.
But the filament lamp will be with us for a very long time to come. In this field, old technology has a tendency to hang around for many years after the introduction of newer technology aimed at replacing the old.
I have indeed, and I've written on it extensively. Your point...?
The series-production introduction of discharge headlamps was about 15 years ago. Market penetration worldwide hovers at around 20% overall (lower in North America, a little higher in Europe, a lot higher in Japan).
Actually, what's more likely to occur is that LED headlamps will cross the cost-effectiveness barriers before HIDs do. It's easier to foresee a worldwide market in 2 decades' time consisting of perhaps 40 to 60 percent tungsten-halogen, 15 to 25 percent HID and the rest LED.
DS
HIR2, 31 to 33 lumens per watt HIR1, 36 to 39 lumens per watt
For comparison:
H1, 24 to 26 lumens per watt HB4 (9006), 17 to 19 lumens per watt
Spherical bulb glass rather than tubular, with multilayer dichroic coating that reflects IR and passes visible light. Filament at centre of sphere, so IR is reflected back onto filament, heating it up hotter than it can be heated by a given electric current, giving greater luminance without the sharply negative effect on filament life that comes with increasing luminance by means of increased wattage.
DS
Well, sure, in that there's a glowing filament in a halogenated atmosphere. The reason why their luminous efficacy is so much higher is the infrared-reflective nature of the envelope (glass). See my post in response to Sexton.
I spent quite a bit of time on the phone and in front of the computer (and at the post office) contributing to that article. It came out pretty well, even the parts I didn't help with ;-)
exactly cheap, but its
Sylvania Silverstar bulbs are a scam, just like all the rest of the blue-glass "extra white" bulbs. They produce less light over a shorter lifespan, at a premium price, all in exchange for an abstruse, marketeer-fabricated notion of looking "cool". See data at
See
Let me remind you of what you wrote in reply to me:-
*************************DP the sure thing is the tungsten filament bulb's days are numbered.
DS Not likely. Over 75% of the new-vehicle fleet in the first world are still factory equipped with tungsten-halogen headlamps, and while HID and LED headlamps will gradually increase their market share, they are unlikely to comprise a majority of headlamps on the road in the foreseeable future.
*****************Either their days are numbered or they'll last forever. Which is it?
Foreseeable future != forever.
DS
Both. New cars will migrate away but it is also true that filament lamps will always be around for older cars.
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