Alternative LED bulbs - ECU confusion?

Kits should be a direct plug n play but high level brake lamps are not and I have designed a simple circuit that will fool the onboard computer to stop flashing the LED brahe lamps every 5 seconds.

For a start there are no direct replacement LEDs for units designed for tungsten - the optics on these lights is optimised for a point source filament. And for things like indictors this is a very real problem in sunlight etc - the LED replacements simply won't be as bright, or have the same viewing angle. And it's not just a slight difference either. There are currently no LED replacements that meet the specifications required by law in Europe. Completely new lamp units designed from the start for LEDs are a different matter.

They will also confuse the failed bulb warning system.

Not so much a kit as a direct bulb replacement Take a look:

Take a look and tell me what you think - these seem pretty well designed to widen the viewing angle:

These simply don't produce the same light levels as a 21 watt indicator bulb in the normal reflector.

Euro car lighting parts must be 'E' marked to conform with those regs. And non of these replacements are - simply because they can't produce the correct spread of light at an intensity to replace a 21 watt filament type. The other type of LED replacement with 5mm leds 'firing' forward do just about produce the same intensity - but only over a very narrow angle.

For safety lights like indicators etc where a wide viewing angle is required these things are positively dangerous - they can't be seen in bright daylight.

You're probably right but these ones have high intensity pointing to the rear with side clusters for the reflectors They *may* be very good and I think I will give it a go with front indicators first As for E marking - the lack of it doesn't mean they don't comply, it merely means they haven't been type approved. This could be due to tyhe fact that it costs so much to achieve these markings. It's rather like saying that someone who has passed a driving test is a better driver than someone who hasn't - which of course is not necessarily true (just that passing proves it!). Worth a try for £5

Which means that they are illegal to use on the road.

Which doesn't answer my question. I wasn't after a legal lecture - there's other more appropriate groups for that

But I've already said they're not any good. Those 'point in all direction' ones give roughly the equivalent output of a 5 rather than 21 watt tungsten in a reflector unit. You can even do the sums if you wish - the LEDs used are bog standard 3mm types.

You can believe what you like.

Why? You can buy 10 tungsten bulbs for this cost which do the job required perfectly.

Er! You asked about LED lamps or bulb replacements and if you are in the UK or Euro land then if NOT type approved then illegal and cannot be fitted for road use. However as it appears that anything goes in the USA then fit and be dammed and stop moaning.

If you don't like the answers don't ask the question.

Well not in the UK, which has [eventually] modified construction and use regulation to allow LED lights, but to certain criteria.

A good example of UK civil service jobsworthiness is reflective number plates: -

These were shown on Tomorrow's World about 40 years ago.

DoT (as it then was) rejected them out of hand and drivers who fitted them prematurely were prosecuted.

OTOH Ireland was an early adopter.

Finally the UK went over to them and only cars pre 1973 could have non reflective plates made.

Now they are obligatory, not only that if your [cherished] plate is to be fitted to a post 2000 car, then you have to have new ones made with the BS mark, although I suppose if they were compliant with BS you could post fix the mark (see another thread).

It allows purpose designed E marked LED lamp units - which is a *very* different matter from using LED replacement bulbs in units designed for filament types. Replacement bulbs for those must be E marked too - and none of the LED ones are, for a very good reason. And that reason is they are dangerous. Just to emphasise the points again they are either bright enough when viewed straight on but useless to the side - one type - or dim all round - the other type.

Oh - FWIW, the custom designed LED indictor units fitted to current VW cars are not as bright viewed from directly behind as filament types and considerably inferior to the sides. So could present a totally unnecessary hazard in bright sunlight - all in the name of fashion.

As said, I didn't ask that question. I asked how they work/perform Oh - and if you are so insistent on going OT into legislation, find me the legislation that makes it an offence for a car owner to fit a non-type approved bulb as I am unconvinced that you have the interpretation correct.

I disagree - they appear better top me which is why I want to try them Rear of lorries/motorcycles/school & public buses have them now too. The E number is not of concern to me - but obviously poor functionality is of concern. E numbers mean the bulb manufacturer has gone through an expensive type approval routine. Non-E number means its compliance cannot be verified NOT that it does not comply with requirements!

You can disagree all you like but the fact is their off axis light output is way below the correct filament bulb.

Yes - in custom designed units. Not using these 'replacement' bulbs in one designed for a filament type.

Sigh. The manufacturers would love to be able to E mark their replacements. They would sell far more. They *can't* be E marked because they can't meet the spec.

Instead of arguing just buy them and do your own tests. But by the tone of your posts you don't give a damn if they are effective or not for the job but simply want them for fashion reasons.

That's a great line. 8)

Not true. Performance is what I wanted to know about (rather than E markings). I guess the answer is exactly as you say - have a go and see. If performance is significantly compromised then they will be in the bin

Let me ask you a question or two then.

Would you buy a car that does not have "type Approval" for use on the road. The question also includes "Single Type Approval" and "Special Import Approval" for use on the UK public road system?

How would you react when the said vehicle fails the "MOT" test because the bulbs, number plate and or whole vehicle is not "Type Approved"?

Why go to extremes to fuel your bloody argument - that's just silly! Of course I wouldn't That said, I'd buy a comb that had not been safety BS (ISO) approved, I'd pay for a go on a go-cart ride on a machine where the history of potentially bodged repairs were an unknown factor, I'd have a go on a theme park ride where the maintenance is outside of my control and there is no type approval etc etc. All car parts are NOT type approved - just the design. This does not guarantee it was made with materials that are perfect (although it should). It is not that rare for non OEM car parts to be legitimately sold and to fail (eg: ball-joints, suspension arms) yet they are legal and have your blessed E numbers thereon. I'm just asking about anyone's ACTUAL experience with a bloody bulb FFS

- not your righteous opinion as to whether I should fit one or not. I have no intention of wrecking my BMW and if *I think* the performance is poor I will bin it - but I will not be totally driven by E numbers and even less by your opinion. I'm done with our contribution so sadly, your future contributions will no longer be displayed.