Auto Wipers

Yes..no expertise whatsoever..

Reply to
Zathras
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Why?

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

I'm not sure the differences you suggest are significant in regard to cylinder walls and piston rings being run in.

Yes that's definitely an issue.

Manufacturers are a bit limited in what they can say in regards to how an engine should be driven. For example the can't suggest breaking the law or driving in particularly aggressive ways.

Manufacturers can also get things wrong. The UK MOT can be a bit unnerving for some diesel owners when they discover the max rev part.

every time

it was new)

I've also found mechanics can be out of date with their advice.

From experience, aggressively!

Reply to
Zathras

That assume the odometer went in at zero and the car actually has any miles on it. It is a digital odometer, so they could reset it to zero after testing, but why bother? Who is going to care in the long run?

If the odometer went into the car with 5 or 6 miles on it, it could easily be a mile from the dock to the parking space, and another mile back to the transport truck. How aggressively can a car be driven in a parking lot full of cars?

How aggressively can a car be driven in 8 miles, no matter what the surroundings are? Keep in mind that the "problem" to be cured is an oil change to keep any aggressive driving damage to a minimim? Seriously.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

Because the oil will be quite contaminated.

The mating of the rings to cylinder wall would have been the worst they could be, resulting in a relatively large volume of blow-by gases, amongst other cr@p...

There is also a lot of debris from the original casting and the asperities from break-in floating around in the oil. Some say that it will all be caught by the oil filter, but I have found this not to be the complete truth. Sometimes, the oil pressure relief valve may open when the oil is cold at higher revs, bypassing the oil filter. Another good reason not to thrash the engine from cold.

Also, I know it is not 'due' a change, (but this may be due to BMW trying to keep the company / fleet buyers happy with a reduced service regime, reducing costs) until 2 years or goodness knows how many miles have been traversed, but I am not happy running oil in an engine for that long from new.

At the beginning of the Nineties, I was in contact with the engineers at Mobil, (when I first heard that extended drains would become the norm). I did ask Mobil if they were confident that their Mobil-1 would last 25,000 miles. I was assured that *if* the engine manufacturers could guarantee zero blow-by, then they (Mobil) would guarantee the oil for the life of the engine, one fill.

I know that the blow-by should be burnt due to PCV, that is why all the 'break-in' trips were all more than 60 miles a time.

There will always be some folks who rigidly follow the instructions, others who think they know better, those that do not care.

You pays your money, and you make your choice.

The oil in the engine absolutely stinks, is filthy black and I am changing it with the oil filter.

I may even take the pan / sump off to clean that too..... ;-) ha ha ha

best wishes

David Skelton

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Reply to
David Skelton

Oh, dear. You *don't* see, do you? Carry on shooting...

Reply to
Dean Dark

That was true at one time. Engine builders are able to (and go to great effort/expense to) flush that crap out of the motor because the car maker does not want to be exposed to the warranty issues that arise from it remaining.

I don't know how much oil a deisel holds -- the gas engines hold 7 quarts -- but I think you are throwing away perfectly good oil and getting no tangable benefit from the exercise or expense.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

The differences of cylinder pressure, and relative ring speed are significant, and that a race engine is not expected to last 200,000 miles, is it ???

Of course... but it is them whom will have to pay for the repairs if their advice is followed and it is wrong. Difficult to prove, I know.

I agree, there are things I do not like about BMWs

There will be some whom tow the manufacturer's line, others whom will be honest. But, Mastertechs *usually* know their stuff. Extensive training and monitoring, checking items replaced under warranty for manufacturing defects, or imperfect assembly / repair previously attempted, and reporting back to BMW to assist product enhancment helps convince me. The mechanics that rush the jobs to gain bonus payments often do shoddy work practices and miss out tasks, those I would not trust.

best wishes

David Skelton

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Reply to
David Skelton

LOL..I've seen cold starts on *full* throttle followed by wheel spins, gear changes, reverse and forward and manoeuvring of vehicles without reducing the throttle from flat until the guy gets out after moving the car a couple of hundred yards!!

Think about it. "Right guys..you've got 500 cars to move and it's a fixed payment for the job..".

Accelerator flat to the boards and just use the clutch. When I saw it happening to Volvos, it was such an incredible and violent sight, I was transfixed and watch these transporters shift a staggering amount of cars (accurately) in a stunningly short time. I could certainly see smoke from clutches.

I'm not sure how effective this policy is though. Running in is a process involving deliberate and relatively high levels of engine wear. I've heard it said that having a dirty oil can assist this process where having a clean oil can hinder this process.

I while back, I owned ex-hire cars that had no oil change for the first 15000 miles and were over 50% late for an oil change. They were cheap! These cars were never treated remotely carefully but every one had excellent engines that have since gone on to cover over 200000 miles without internal overhaul. The tended not to need oil top-ups.

Personally speaking, I don't know which camp (treat it rough or the more gentle sort with frequent oil changes) is correct so I tend to steer in between the two. I treat my cars rough and change the oil a bit more frequently than manufacturers recommend. So far, so good! ;-)

Reply to
Zathras

and that a

Are you saying that wear patterns developed in a highly stressed engine in a short time frame cannot be remotely similar to those produced by a lower stressed engine in a much longer time frame?

Reply to
Zathras

Even if it was, it's designed to cope. It's one of the reasons engine oil is stupidly expensive compared to a few years ago.

Yes but it's still tiny.

Not these days.. Part of the reason long life oils do what they say on the tin is because engines are much better built and designed to vastly better tolerances than 20 years ago.

until 2 years

But that's an immediate problem because *so* much has changed in the last 20 years. For a start, common-rail diesel became the standard and this was a huge step forward in terms of improving the quality and control of the burn in diesel engines.

Indeed.

My experience of diesel oil changes over the last 10 years is that the oil is always black within a few miles of a fresh change. It's designed to carry black soot.

Reply to
Zathras

It depends on where you live. Mobil 1 and other good synthetics are eye-wateringly expensive in the YooKay. Not so in the YooEss. If I shop around I can get Mobil 1 for between $6 and $7 per quart/litre, delivered to my front door.

I can also get a quart/litre of good quality dino juice for $2 or $3.

I think that "market price" may have more to do with the price of engine oil in the YooKay than you realise.

Reply to
Dean Dark

Indeed. I recently bought a heater fan final stage resistor off EBay - it's an aftermarket design presumably made in China or the far east. UK BIN price of 39.99 gbp. US BIN price 34 US dollars.

Last time I had a dealer service, they charged 13 gbp a litre for 'BMW' oil.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

That's good to know. The OEM part is $106 from the dealer here. Mine is starting to sometimes behave erratically.

Reply to
Dean Dark

I am saying they are different. The diesel engine has *much* larger cylinder pressure with a lower ring speed. The race engine is not expected to last that long, whereas BMW would not like it if their engines had to replaced or over-hauled every year, or during the warranty period. So they give advice on how to run-in their engines.

regards

David Skelton

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Reply to
David Skelton

Fully synthetic engine oil has always been stupidly expensive, more so in the

1980's than now.

Not necessarily. In a bigger engine with higher cylinder pressure, the blow by can be significant at higher revs.

Yes, engines are better, but so is fuel too. Two weeks ago, I did an oil change on our

62,000 mile Ford Focus, and the dirt and metal particles left on the bottom of the tray was not encouraging, considering the car has only done 3,000 miles (in 12 months) on that oil. I think you would be surprised what you would get out if you were to flush and reverse flush the cooling system and oil passages. I have, but not yet on this 335d.

A particular manufacturer is on their fourth generation common rail injection system. Advances are being made all the time. But still, we need a DPF to keep emissions down as not enough of the fuel is burnt.

Yes it is designed to carry soot. But, low SAPS oils have a lower TBN than I would like to see in a diesel oil. Not enough to last up to 29,000 miles in a new engine.

The method of changing the oil is key to how quickly the fresh oil turns black. When I last did an oil change on a BMW diesel, one litre of old oil was left in the sump, even thought the oil was at max on the dipstick. I had to pour in fresh to flush out the old, which gave a cleaner, and more complete oil change. You will not see a dealership do that, but they will still charge you for a full fill of fresh oil, even though they have filled the engine 'short' so to speak. Once the oil stops draining from the sump plug, they re-install it. Leaving up to a litre of old oil inside. Before starting the change, I like to get the oil hot, then leave it overnight to fully drain back to the sump. Not starting the engine until fresh oil is in place.

Some use vacuum to suck the old oil out. If the suction tube can be made to get to the bottom most part of the sump, I suppose that could be better. But I have not tried it.

I'm lucky, I have the time to do it as I like.

best wishes

David Skelton

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Reply to
David Skelton

It seems to work just fine and has a year's warranty. Can't possibly be shorter lived than the Valeo unit BMW supply. ;-)

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Sorry, poor sentence construction. I meant flush the oil passages and flushing and reverse flushing the cooling system.

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Reply to
David Skelton

significant, and that

Wear rates may be different but you're not convincing me that the wear pattern itself must be different.

it if their

period. So they

Hmmm..remember Nikasil?

Reply to
Zathras

I made my point poorly. I meant that the long-life special oils are stupidly expensive compared to the lesser oils of previous generations that would have worked fine in a car of the type I now have. I would be surprised if a BMW Longlife 04 oil was not among the more expensive oils to be found in any market place.

Reply to
Zathras

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