BMW 'Goodwill'

I think the engine/gearbox on your car are going to be the *least* of your worries. You bought the first year of the E65/66 body style. Can you spell - p-r-o-t-o-t-y-p-e?

Electronics will be more of a concern. Of course, you could be lucky, but most first year owners complained about the electronics.

As for whether a car should "last at least 200,000 miles", well that all depends on your driving style and the conditions you drive in. Why should BMW or any other mfr, warranty or guarantee your car? Who is to say you don't "abuse" your car, e.g., shift each and every gear at 7000 rpm? Alternatively, if someone did "abuse" their car, should BMW "guarantee" it?

Further, ask yourself how do you maintain your car? How often do you change your brake fluid? coolant? transmission or differential oil? (Oh yeah, you're suppose to a a "lifetime" tranny fluid -hahahahah) What about things like water pump or radiator (you know its plastic right?)

Remember, car mfrs are in the business of SELLING cars. Why would you think their "goodwill" should extend beyond the warranty period? Good Luck with all that!

Are you selling any of that? I don't even care what it is, it has to be pretty good shit if it makes you wonder if the factory is going to take part in a welfare progam for the very rich.

Well... they never covered some stuff in the warranty on my previous 740's, because they were high milers.... 100000 miles....

And they put things down to 'wear and tear' which wasn't covered..... yet.... I still got them to make a contribution.....

So.... there you go.

I think so.

I've had a few electronics problems already. Had things reset twice in 18 months.

The car is automatic, so its impossible to over-rev it. Also, the E65/E66 has Condition Based Servicing (CBS), which monitors how you drive, and adjusts accordingly. My cars are always fully serviced by BMW, when required.

All my cars are fully BMW serviced in accordance with requirements.

Because I paid £78000 for a car, and I believe it should have a better warranty than 3 years. In addition, I was told at the time of sale, that the BMW extended warranty would be £1553 for 3 extra years.... now its £1536 for

1 year!!!! >

If you really have to ask....the only sensible advice is: Get out now while you can still make it someone else's problem...

If you take care of your car and DO THE THINGS YOU R SUPPOSE TO do to your vehicle BMW WILL KNOW. YOUR CAR WILL ADJUST TO THE WAY YOU DRIVE. When was the last time you change your tranny oil ?.how old is your car how many miles on your car?. All these things come into play so tell me what is wrong with your car?.

The initial pricetag of the car has absolutely nothing to do with how long they will warrant the engine and gearbox. Witness the Hyundais with their 100k mile powertrain warranty across the entire inexpensive line.

By the way, your expectations do not jive with reality. There are *no* car companies that offer a 200k mile warranty on powertrains.

If you *need* to have the car covered by warranty then you had better go out and buy one no matter what the price of it. OTOH, if you need the money more than the warranty you can either take your chances and keep the money in your pocket or get rid of the car. Let's face it, the chances are pretty slim you'll ever incur repair charges that even equal the cost of the warranty or else the warranty companies would go broke.

I personally have not, but have heard many 3rd and 4th hand stories where BMW picked up either all, or more often a part, of the cost of the repair if they feel there was a design flaw which was in part responsible for the failure. Considering that I have heard no such claims about the modern 745's (with either engine or transmissions) I would expect to be completely on your own should you now have a failure out of warranty.

Ya buys yer ticket and ya yakes yer chances...

-Fred W

Now you know the difference between perception and reality. You may exist in either one, your choice...

You were *told*? Hah. Well then, you should have purchased the warranty at that time, then you would have known what the cost would be.

How on earth could you (or anyone) receive a quote for this (or anything) and expect it to remain the same three years later?

Are you really this naive?

-Fred W

What follows are my opinions, which may differ from those of others.

I think it's fair to want a more expensive car to last as long if not longer than a cheaper car, but the reality is that you're not paying more for a BMW than a Ford solely because of the expectation that it will have a longer life. For your money you're also getting prestige, performance, exclusivety, handling, creature comforts, etc.

The fact is that your technically superior BMW while better in 9 out of 10 categories for example, may well not last as long as a Ford before requiring expensive maintenance. Factors that may affect the need for maintenance of your BMW include the previously mentioned creature comforts (the greater the number of moving parts and electrical components the increased likelihood that something will go wrong), and the fact that BMW produce fewer vehicles than Ford meaning fewer economies of scale.

I suspect if your car failed outside of warranty, that you'd get little goodwill. Possible exception might be if it failed after just passing the mileage limit, but I'm speculating.

I agree that ideally, life span of engine/transmission and any other component would be directly related to the price you pay, but that would mean those of use that can't afford a car that costs more money than we earn in 2 years, would be stuck with more affordable vehicles that only last

20,000 miles.

I can certainly see the appeal of leasing a new BMW and returning it for a new model at the end of the lease period. If I had the funds to be able to purchase a 745Li, I'd do it with the expectation that I may have to spend significant sums on maintenance the longer I kept it.

As a side note, there's a 1991 750il with only 88k miles advertised for sale locally to me, and the seller only wants $4,000. I don't expect what was once BMW's flagship vehicle to last another 112k miles before requiring what is likely to be very expensive engine or transmission work, notwithstanding the fact that the vehicle may have been abused.

I hope my reply comes across as more empathetic than those of others, as that was my intention. It's surprising to me that you should receive such unempathic responses from a group that -- I think it's fair to assume -- are in a similar position regarding costs of purchasing and maintaining what some consider the best* cars in the world.

Of course the fact that others are in the same metaphorical boat would explain the automatic reaction of 'look before you leap'. It's my experience with many usenet groups, that there are many more silent individuals agreeing with you, than there are those that disagree and say as much.

*If not measured by cost of ownership.

"Neil" wrote

Nice post (and I'm not being sarcastic.)

I would agree with your speculation: don't count on goodwill. Although BMW has decided *in specific instances* to cover some things or extend warranties (note the recent M3 engine problems and the nikasil problems in the '90s), unless they decide it's their fault in design/testing, it's not gonna happen. Remember, they buy transmissions from Getrag and GM, and parts from other suppliers that have met BMW's "spec". Another thing to note is that the dealer is only re-imbursed by BMW at specific rates and for only the warranty period - you have to ask if your dealer would cover the cost out of their till, or go to the trouble to get the work re-imbursed by BMW for out-of-warranty repairs.

In most cases (note recent GM advertisements for Allison transmissions in GMC/Chevy trucks in the US), lifetimes beyond around 100K are not important to most consumers and manufacturers. A BMW is just a car, and has only to compete with other cars.

On the subject of the tone of responses, don't forget that many BMW aficionados are "old school", work on their own cars, love 2002s, E12s and such, don't think much of the complexity of the newer BMWs, and look down on the nouveau-BMW-buyers.

Floyd

This is a good point, if not particularly comforting to newcomers to the marque, and/or purchasers of anything newer than an E36 perhaps.

It's funny because back when the E28 was new, I remember reading an article in a UK automotive magazine saying something along the lines of your average non-BMW service centre not having the technology available to be able to correctly service anything in the E28 range *above* the 518i. I might be some what off on the details, but my point is that what the home mechanic of

1985 was able to cope with was far less than the home mechanic of today. Who knows, perhaps in 20 years time my new-born daughter will be servicing the iDrive in her old school E90!

I'd certainly like to return to the early 80s when I recall fellow "BM" owners waving to one another as they pass. You didn't need to join a car club or internet forum back then to feel part of a community.

I think this vast increase in the extended warranty price is related to a very recent change in the law applicable to such warranties. You can't blame BMW for this.

There is another thread also started on 23 May but a bit earlier ("UK BMW warranties") mentioning this.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

I had been thinking exactly that even before you posted this.

An apposite anecdote, even if it refers only to shoes: Last week I walked into a Bally shoe shop to complain that my Bally shoe wasn't standing up to wear and tear as well as my Clark's shoe at about half the price.

If substituting "BMW/car" for "shoe" the answer from the salesperson was just about a copy of your comments below.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

Most folks that pay that much for a car don't keep them much past that, if that long, even. At least around here in the land of Bigger-Better-Faster-More, that's the case. Can't be seen driving last year's model, you know..

I thank these people for taking the heavy depreciation hit that allow me to buy lightly used BMWs & Porsches at reasonable prices... Rather than having payments we get repair bills. See 'Takes your chances...'

cds

No, because I only bought the car 12 months ago.... not three years ago.

Your tone is very demeaning... which is probably indicative of why you are not riding round in a 745Li.

Many thanks for your constructive response.

I am merely trying to elicit opinions, and get the views.... Some agree, some disagree.... thats fair enough to me.....

I agree with your sentiments that we should expect more from a car bought at £78000, than one for £18000 It seems there are too many 'smart as**s' in the NG, who have probably never been in the position of having a £78000 car on their hands, and therefore are unsympathetic to those that do.

Thanks for your comments and constructive discussion

Good reply

Thanks for the constructive commenst to the post.

Cheers

Could always buy a Hyundai -- I'm sure they'd be happy to accept £78000 for one and give you 10 years warranty.

-Russ.

That's funny. Do you know what a non sequitur is? I'm just curious...