Considering a BMW - A Few Questions

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On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 17:31:36 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"


You've obviously never tried to communicate with a Geordie after 8 bottles of Newcastle brown!
No way is that English! :o)
Dodgy.
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MUSHROOMS ARE THE OPIATE OF THE MOOSES

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Let's not confuse the foreigners with the legal position of England/Wales, Scotland & Northern Ireland, and let's stick to the UK and Eire...
:-) DAS
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AGH! wrote:

Yes, no machine is perfect. In fact, nothing (except G-d) is perfect. That being said, the following views are mine alone...
1. BMW is a nice car, but overpriced and expensive to maintain. Also, undriveable in the winter without very good snow tires (except for the AWD XI models). They are still rated an enthusiast's car, particularly known for their exceptional handling. And yet most are sold with automatic transmissions. because a lot of folks just want the cachet of owning a bimmer. 2. Volvo used to be known as "the car for people who hate cars". That is, folks who did not care that much about driving per se, but wanted safety, reliability, and longevity. The 240 was a legend on all three counts, but Ford has unraveled a lot of what Volvo stood for. EG, now they do not do particularly well in crash tests, whereas they were once the benchmark. Still good cars, but not what they used to be. 3. Saab has been eviscerated by GM. The only things left are the signature grill and the key in the console. All of the great individualistic design is gone, all of the quirky but loveable Saabisms are history. A very sad story. Buy a Saab today and you are getting a gussied-up Opel, or an overpriced Suburu. But, thanks to the durability of Saabs, there are a lot of pre-GM examples still out there that are real bargains. In its heyday (the 70's and early 80's), Saab was every bit as good as BMW (but in a different way). 4. Mercedes-Benz is now a mediocrity, after its fusion with the brain-dead Chrysler Corporation. They now make $100K cars that match Yugo and Renault for reliability problems. 5. Jaguar is junk. It used to be the country club car for English lords and ladies (and those aspiring to be such). It is now a marquee of mediocre engineering hiding under nice leather and wood interiors. 6. American cars are pathetic. The country that invented automotive mass production now can't seem to make cars that appeal to its home market. Very depressing. 7.Asian cars will rule. So get used to their unique combination of reliability, gee-whiz gimmickry, and anime styling. It's here for keeps. Sob.
On second thought, go out and get that bimmer!
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Because I still *own* one. And the main reason I still own it is because I feel I've invested too much into it to let it go at its current market value.
-- Cliff
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<BRH> wrote in message

Generally, no. BMW doesn't have a holdback, so there's no hidden profit for the dealer. They occasionally offer an incentive to buy a model that is being replaced ($4K on an E39 as it was being phased out for the E60). Large dealerships in large markets can typically offer a better price break than small ones. Best I've heard of was $1500 over invoice.

BMW's are tuned for 91 octane. You can run regular or mid grade then the EMU will modify the engine's performance. You'll probably noticed poorer gas mileage as well. If you're trying to pinch pennies in operating costs, I'd recommend a Honda or Toyota. Any savings you realize in running cheaper gas will be far outweighed by the preventive maintenance program when you exceed you 50K/4 years of "free" maintenance.

OK, but paint tends to be somewhat brittle and chip prone. If you share the road with lots of gravel trucks and folks that go offroad and then back on, clear paint protection would be a wise investment.

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BRH wrote:

No. Just negotiate the best deal you can. No specials, rebates or such stuff.

Some, not all. Mostly the higher performance models.

less than optimum. The ECU will retard the ignition if it senses and pinging.

Why not redlining? It's there for a reason you know...

Fine. Virginia weather is mild.

I do not personally consider BMWs as "luxury" cars, though I suppose the 7 series is and the later 5 series qualify. They are more like European performance sedans (and coupes). That is why I buy them, for the performance and driving experience, not for any "luxury" features, and especially not for and "prestige factor". If you are looking for luxury and prestige, and do not really care so much about the driving experience then I would recommend the Infinity or Lexus.
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Agreed. They (and similar Mercs and Audis) are as common as muck on German roads, and almost so in Britain. Not luxury, just nice cars.
DAS
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Dori A Schmetterling wrote:

In the UK at least, BMW supply some models with less than base model specs - the "ES" (extra spartan?) I believe they take a base model and take things off of it. These are certainly not luxury cars. These days many manufacturers are providing equipment the same or better than BMW provides. I think you have to be BMW die-hard to only consider BMW these days. Dealers suck in general and paying a premium to get crappy service leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
In the UK the 3-series outsells the Ford sector equivalent the Mondeo so in a way the Ford is more exclusive.
I would have no problem however recommending a several year old 5 or 7 series as a "cheap" luxury car. You can get parts and servicing at non-BMW locations and drive around in something that only cost you ford money.
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I don't think 'luxury' necessarily means equipment levels otherwise the very worst Asian maker could be considered a luxury car maker when compared to a base BMW. To me it's to do with the tactile feel of driving the vehicle. And this doesn't change with a BMW regardless of the level of trim and toys.
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Luxury: 1. Something inessential but conducive to pleasure and comfort. 2. Something expensive or hard to obtain. 3. Sumptuous living or surroundings: lives in luxury.
Asian car makers have been making more luxurious small-midsize cars as standard than BMW have for decades. However, people usually think of large cars when it comes to luxury like the BMW 7 series, mercedes or lexus limos and of course these all come with creature comforts.
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I'd go for 'enjoyable but not essential thing' - Collins English Dictionary.

It's one of these phrases taken over by the ad man?
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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to the likes of a BMW, or a Honda or Toyota, for refinement, ride comfort, handling, quality feel of any part of the vehicle you care to mention, seat comfort, handling, durability ...... yada... yada... yada. Asian cars OK if you want a cheap reliable run-about, which lots of people do.
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AGH! wrote:

I want some of whatever you're smoking...
Hondas and Toyotas *ARE* Asian cars.
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They are, but more normally referred to as Japanese. By Asian I meant things like Kia and Hyundia. Even Daewoo. Oops. Chevrolet?
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Wait until Cherry/Chery start shipping cars out of China. At the reported $12-15K for a fully loaded "luxuary" car, all the other companies are going to be hurting!
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It depends. When Renault started to sell its romanian made Dacia Logan in Germany (a small 4 door sedan based on the Renault Clio) for only 7.500 Euros (which is some 30% less than the price of comparable cars and half the price of a VW Golf in standard configuration), people thought this would be a major threat for western car makers. Now the distributor of Logan in germany reports a very low demand for the car.
IMHO the low price of this 3rd world cars is caused by two things: 1. lack of technological refinement and 2. low labor cost. The result is a car which costs as much as a four year old used western car, but is not better in any aspect than this car either. So why bother with a shitty Dacia Logan, if you could have an used Golf for the same money? Some buyers may like the prestige of buying a "new car", but the prestige of a new Dacia is close to zero, because everybody knows that it is the cheapest car around. Situation may be totally different in eastern Europe. There a new Dacia probably is a Chick Collector of some kind;-)
This yera the first Chinese made car hit the German market. It is called "Landwind" and it is based on a late '80s Isuzu/Opel SUV design. German automobile club ADAC performed a crash test with this car and came to the conclusion: "the worst crash test result since the beginning of our crash test activities." I do not have any respect for chinese automobiles. If they want my respect, they need to launch better cars than this POS.
I think it will be a long way until a chinese made car will be a real competitor for a BMW. Honda and Lexus needed decades to come into this position, and it required not only superb engineering but also participation in Formula 1 racing etc. Let's wait and see.
Frank
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The Chinese have bought ROVER - I wait for results!
Sir Hugh of Bognor
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On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:59:06 -0500, Malt_Hound

Damn, you beat me too it!
Dodgy.
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Because for most people the price of a new one of those (bigger BMWs, Mercs) is a luxury. Or running costs.
Hence smaller BMWs, Mercs, Audis and not particularly 'luxurious' esp in Germany.
DAS
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I think the key is to drive one. IF you can't tell the difference between a BMW and Audi/Mercedes/Acura/Lexus/Infiniti, then get yourself one of those.
BMW use to require a very stringent maintenance program. (i.e., flush brake fluid and coolant every 2 years; change differential and transmission fluids every 30,000 miles). But with the advent of "free" maintenance and "lifetime" fluids, those intervals have been greatly extended. If you're the type that gets a new car every couple of years/100,000 or less miles, then it doesn't matter. If you like to keep your car for a long time, then it does make a difference.
Bottom line - drive one and see if you like it. If not, get something else!
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