E38 740 engine ticking / tapping - please have a listen...

Hi My 2000 740 has a ticking / tapping on the engine.
At idle, the tick is around 4 times per second, and is definately linked to the number of revs.
You can listen to the tick at this page address http://www.aspy.co.uk/e38740tick.mp3
I recorded this sound by pointing my microphone at the engine, with the bonnet up. The car has 95,000 miles on the clock, and 'was' under BMW warranty when I took it to my local dealer 6 weeks ago. They advised me to carry on driving the car, as the noise did not have any affect on how the car ran. However, as the car was under warranty, I wanted it to be addressed, before something does go wrong which would cost me money.
The dealership are 'clueless' with regards to the problem, and have said that unless they can find a problem that warranty would cover, I would have to pay for full investigation, and probably for the repair. This seemed strange, as it was one of the reasons which I wanted a warranty in the first place!!
Anyhow, I have started to try to investigate the problem myself, even though I'm no mechanic. I have borrowed a stethascope from a friend, and held it over the rocker covers of each side of the V8, expecting to be able to hear a loud tappet or valve lifter. There appears to be just an 'echo' of the tick in these areas. However, if I listen over the case ends (over the timing chain covers), the tick is very much louder. I'm not sure if this would be a genuine timing chain issue, or something else in this area of the engine. I've had 3 740s and a 745. 2 of the 740's had mileage in excess of 95000, (one with 130,000), and both were lovely, with no engine noise. My limited mechanical knowledge would be suprised if it were a chain issue, as I would expect a more constant 'dragging' sound, rather than a tick. (??)
Does anyone know how many chains are on this car?? My dealer tells me there are 3... (?) One for each side of the V, and one across the 2 sides.
Has anyone come across anything like this before?? Any ideas on what it may be, or what to check?? Any ideas on likely repair costs and 'seriousness' of the problem would help also.
Many thanks
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Paul, Nice touch recording the sound.
Sounds like valve train clatter to me. The 4/sec is about right for once every other engine revolution. I am certain the the mechanics at your dealership have heard it before also.
At the very least they should pull the valve covers to check that the oil lines inside the covers are clear. These lines carry pressurized oil to spray onto each rocker and if one of them gets plugged significant damage can result.
This noise can also result from sticking 'lifters' in the valve train. These can often be freed up by using an oil additive. Your BMW mechanics also know about this and should have suggested it. Sounds like they are just hoping that if they play dumb you might not come back. Sticking lifters won't cause damage immediately but can cause valves to break eventually. Sounds like it's time to get assertive at your dealership.
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi<BR>My 2000 740 has a ticking / tapping on the engine.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>At idle, the tick is around 4 times per second, and is definately linked to the number of revs.<BR>You can listen to the tick at this page address </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A href="http://www.aspy.co.uk/e38740tick.mp3 ">http://www.aspy.co.uk/e38740tick.mp3 </A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>I recorded this sound by pointing my microphone at the engine, with the bonnet up.<BR>The car has 95,000 miles on the clock, and 'was' under BMW warranty when I took it to my local dealer 6 weeks ago. They advised me to carry on driving the car, as the noise did not have any affect on how the car ran. However, as the car was under warranty, I wanted it to be addressed, before something does go wrong which would cost me money.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The dealership are 'clueless' with regards to the problem, and have said that unless they can find a problem that warranty would cover, I would have to pay for full investigation, and probably for the repair. This seemed strange, as it was one of the reasons which I wanted a warranty in the first place!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anyhow, I have started to try to investigate the problem myself, even though I'm no mechanic.<BR>I have borrowed a stethascope from a friend, and held it over the rocker covers of each side of the V8, expecting to be able to hear a loud tappet or valve lifter. There appears to be just an 'echo' of the tick in these areas. However, if I listen over the case ends (over the timing chain covers), the tick is very much louder. I'm not sure if this would be a genuine timing chain issue, or something else in this area of the engine.<BR>I've had 3 740s and a 745. 2 of the 740's had mileage in excess of 95000, (one with 130,000), and both were lovely, with no engine noise.<BR>My limited mechanical knowledge would be suprised if it were a chain issue, as I would expect a more constant 'dragging' sound, rather than a tick. (??)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Does anyone know how many chains are on this car?? My dealer tells me there are 3... (?) One for each side of the V, and one across the 2 sides.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Has anyone come across anything like this before?? Any ideas on what it may be, or what to check?? Any ideas on likely repair costs and 'seriousness' of the problem would help also.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Many thanks </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Stuck hydraulic tappet?
Sounds like a bag of bolts in a cement mixer to me - is this the least of your worries?
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi<BR>My 2000 740 has a ticking / tapping on the engine.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>At idle, the tick is around 4 times per second, and is definately linked to the number of revs.<BR>You can listen to the tick at this page address </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A href="http://www.aspy.co.uk/e38740tick.mp3 ">http://www.aspy.co.uk/e38740tick.mp3 </A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>I recorded this sound by pointing my microphone at the engine, with the bonnet up.<BR>The car has 95,000 miles on the clock, and 'was' under BMW warranty when I took it to my local dealer 6 weeks ago. They advised me to carry on driving the car, as the noise did not have any affect on how the car ran. However, as the car was under warranty, I wanted it to be addressed, before something does go wrong which would cost me money.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The dealership are 'clueless' with regards to the problem, and have said that unless they can find a problem that warranty would cover, I would have to pay for full investigation, and probably for the repair. This seemed strange, as it was one of the reasons which I wanted a warranty in the first place!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anyhow, I have started to try to investigate the problem myself, even though I'm no mechanic.<BR>I have borrowed a stethascope from a friend, and held it over the rocker covers of each side of the V8, expecting to be able to hear a loud tappet or valve lifter. There appears to be just an 'echo' of the tick in these areas. However, if I listen over the case ends (over the timing chain covers), the tick is very much louder. I'm not sure if this would be a genuine timing chain issue, or something else in this area of the engine.<BR>I've had 3 740s and a 745. 2 of the 740's had mileage in excess of 95000, (one with 130,000), and both were lovely, with no engine noise.<BR>My limited mechanical knowledge would be suprised if it were a chain issue, as I would expect a more constant 'dragging' sound, rather than a tick. (??)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Does anyone know how many chains are on this car?? My dealer tells me there are 3... (?) One for each side of the V, and one across the 2 sides.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Has anyone come across anything like this before?? Any ideas on what it may be, or what to check?? Any ideas on likely repair costs and 'seriousness' of the problem would help also.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Many thanks </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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I listened to your MP3 and it could be a timing chain. It's not a tappetty rattle (to my ears) but it could be a leaking exhaust manifold or noisy alternator (or some other ancillary driven off the engine). Try squirting WD40 or spray-grease behind the alternator pulley. I do that every few weeks on my engine to temporarily get rid of a noise not unlike the one in your recording.
It's not a loud sound. Can you hear it with the bonnet closed? What does it sound like when you rev the engine? If it does turn out to be a timing chain it's probably not worth spending money on unless the noise is really annoying; they don't tend to break but you'd be unlucky to get noise at 95,000 and 5 years, to say the least.
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Sounds lower,maybe early stages of wristpin failing or connecting rod.
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Hi Paul.
I listened to your MP3. I wish I recorded one when I had the noise problem with my car.
I cannot say if it is a tappet problem; however, if you the car did not have this noise when you first bought it, and it is in warranty, I recommend getting assertive with the dealership to fix it before the warranty expires.
You mention 95K miles (in Australia, that is 152K km). I recall experience the tappet/camshaft/rocker-noise at that time, but your MP3 does not sound like what I expected based on my recent experience with my BMW.
Like Dan Buchan, I would like to know how it sounds when you rev the motor around 3K RPM.
Either way, it is in warranty, and they should fix it.
Kind Regards,
-- Jason @HOME 8MP Australia
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi<BR>My 2000 740 has a ticking / tapping on the engine.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>At idle, the tick is around 4 times per second, and is definately linked to the number of revs.<BR>You can listen to the tick at this page address </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A href="http://www.aspy.co.uk/e38740tick.mp3 ">http://www.aspy.co.uk/e38740tick.mp3 </A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>I recorded this sound by pointing my microphone at the engine, with the bonnet up.<BR>The car has 95,000 miles on the clock, and 'was' under BMW warranty when I took it to my local dealer 6 weeks ago. They advised me to carry on driving the car, as the noise did not have any affect on how the car ran. However, as the car was under warranty, I wanted it to be addressed, before something does go wrong which would cost me money.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The dealership are 'clueless' with regards to the problem, and have said that unless they can find a problem that warranty would cover, I would have to pay for full investigation, and probably for the repair. This seemed strange, as it was one of the reasons which I wanted a warranty in the first place!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anyhow, I have started to try to investigate the problem myself, even though I'm no mechanic.<BR>I have borrowed a stethascope from a friend, and held it over the rocker covers of each side of the V8, expecting to be able to hear a loud tappet or valve lifter. There appears to be just an 'echo' of the tick in these areas. However, if I listen over the case ends (over the timing chain covers), the tick is very much louder. I'm not sure if this would be a genuine timing chain issue, or something else in this area of the engine.<BR>I've had 3 740s and a 745. 2 of the 740's had mileage in excess of 95000, (one with 130,000), and both were lovely, with no engine noise.<BR>My limited mechanical knowledge would be suprised if it were a chain issue, as I would expect a more constant 'dragging' sound, rather than a tick. (??)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Does anyone know how many chains are on this car?? My dealer tells me there are 3... (?) One for each side of the V, and one across the 2 sides.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Has anyone come across anything like this before?? Any ideas on what it may be, or what to check?? Any ideas on likely repair costs and 'seriousness' of the problem would help also.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Many thanks </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Hi all...
I took my car to a local BMW independent, this morning.
He looked at the car, and told me that it was a VANOS sound. He checked the operation of the VANOS unit, with his diagnostic computer, and said it was operationally fine. He said that sometimes the VANOS units can become a little noisy at this sort of mileage, but operationally, there was nothing to worry about.
Following this, I contacted my dealer, and suggested that the problem may be with VANOS, as I had been to an independent, and this is what he suggested. Remarkably, the dealer then said, "Oh, we have changed both the VANOS solenoids" I then said that this was the first time that this had been mentioned to me, and that I was suprised to hear it. The dealer then insisted that they had both been changed.....
I don't know how to tell if they have or not.... but it sounds fishy to me.... I've asked the dealer to put it in writing, exactly what they have done to the car.
Does anyone know if I can tell if these have been changed?? Is there any other part of the VANOS system, other than the Solenoids??
What should my next step be?? Do I let it go, because there is probably no impending significant damage (according to the Independent), or do I push the dealer?? The warranty has now expired, but the issue that I took to the dealer before the warranty expired still persists.... I've contacted BMW warranty and told them, but they offered no idea where to go from here, other than stating that I would need to pay for the cost of an investigation, and if there was no failed part found, that I would need to incur all costs!!
Any advice appreciated.
Thanks
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi<BR>My 2000 740 has a ticking / tapping on the engine.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>At idle, the tick is around 4 times per second, and is definately linked to the number of revs.<BR>You can listen to the tick at this page address </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A href="http://www.aspy.co.uk/e38740tick.mp3 ">http://www.aspy.co.uk/e38740tick.mp3 </A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>I recorded this sound by pointing my microphone at the engine, with the bonnet up.<BR>The car has 95,000 miles on the clock, and 'was' under BMW warranty when I took it to my local dealer 6 weeks ago. They advised me to carry on driving the car, as the noise did not have any affect on how the car ran. However, as the car was under warranty, I wanted it to be addressed, before something does go wrong which would cost me money.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The dealership are 'clueless' with regards to the problem, and have said that unless they can find a problem that warranty would cover, I would have to pay for full investigation, and probably for the repair. This seemed strange, as it was one of the reasons which I wanted a warranty in the first place!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anyhow, I have started to try to investigate the problem myself, even though I'm no mechanic.<BR>I have borrowed a stethascope from a friend, and held it over the rocker covers of each side of the V8, expecting to be able to hear a loud tappet or valve lifter. There appears to be just an 'echo' of the tick in these areas. However, if I listen over the case ends (over the timing chain covers), the tick is very much louder. I'm not sure if this would be a genuine timing chain issue, or something else in this area of the engine.<BR>I've had 3 740s and a 745. 2 of the 740's had mileage in excess of 95000, (one with 130,000), and both were lovely, with no engine noise.<BR>My limited mechanical knowledge would be suprised if it were a chain issue, as I would expect a more constant 'dragging' sound, rather than a tick. (??)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Does anyone know how many chains are on this car?? My dealer tells me there are 3... (?) One for each side of the V, and one across the 2 sides.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Has anyone come across anything like this before?? Any ideas on what it may be, or what to check?? Any ideas on likely repair costs and 'seriousness' of the problem would help also.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Many thanks </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Hi all,
After getting nowhere with my dealer, I decided to buy an oil additive for 'Hyraulic valve lifters'
I have put the additive in, and the engine sounds better, but still has the 'tick' when revving....
The car has only run for around 5 miles since putting the additive in.
Would anyone think that this may have been the problem?? Can anyone suggest if the noise when revving sounds like a lifter? or vanos... or anything else??
http://www.aspy.co.uk/e38740tick2.mp3 - This is the noise now, after 5 miles on the additive
http://www.aspy.co.uk/e38740tick.mp3 - This is the original noise...
Thanks
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi<BR>My 2000 740 has a ticking / tapping on the engine.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>At idle, the tick is around 4 times per second, and is definately linked to the number of revs.<BR>You can listen to the tick at this page address </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A href="http://www.aspy.co.uk/e38740tick.mp3 ">http://www.aspy.co.uk/e38740tick.mp3 </A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>I recorded this sound by pointing my microphone at the engine, with the bonnet up.<BR>The car has 95,000 miles on the clock, and 'was' under BMW warranty when I took it to my local dealer 6 weeks ago. They advised me to carry on driving the car, as the noise did not have any affect on how the car ran. However, as the car was under warranty, I wanted it to be addressed, before something does go wrong which would cost me money.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The dealership are 'clueless' with regards to the problem, and have said that unless they can find a problem that warranty would cover, I would have to pay for full investigation, and probably for the repair. This seemed strange, as it was one of the reasons which I wanted a warranty in the first place!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anyhow, I have started to try to investigate the problem myself, even though I'm no mechanic.<BR>I have borrowed a stethascope from a friend, and held it over the rocker covers of each side of the V8, expecting to be able to hear a loud tappet or valve lifter. There appears to be just an 'echo' of the tick in these areas. However, if I listen over the case ends (over the timing chain covers), the tick is very much louder. I'm not sure if this would be a genuine timing chain issue, or something else in this area of the engine.<BR>I've had 3 740s and a 745. 2 of the 740's had mileage in excess of 95000, (one with 130,000), and both were lovely, with no engine noise.<BR>My limited mechanical knowledge would be suprised if it were a chain issue, as I would expect a more constant 'dragging' sound, rather than a tick. (??)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Does anyone know how many chains are on this car?? My dealer tells me there are 3... (?) One for each side of the V, and one across the 2 sides.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Has anyone come across anything like this before?? Any ideas on what it may be, or what to check?? Any ideas on likely repair costs and 'seriousness' of the problem would help also.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Many thanks </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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