If you are thinking of buying a BMW read this

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DAS
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"dizzy" < snipped-for-privacy@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
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Exactly. Everything else is a minor annoyance.
If BMW would just remove the useless crap altogether (cupholders, heated steering wheels, iDrive, power seats, and so on) we'd have a decent motorcar.
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You still do. Most extras you don't actually HAVE to have. iDrive is a bit of a problem though in that it is a forced option on nearly every model now.
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Sam



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waffled on about something:

I believe BMW did used to make such vehicles. I think it was called an E36. :o)
Dodgy.
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:))
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From a reasonalble point of view, one could come to the comclusion that, compared to cars like the BMW 545i or the BMW 535d, a BMW M5 is completely useless. The performance of both "ordinary" 5-series is way better than you can use on a public road with law enforcement. I think, both BMW M5 and M6 are cars which offer their owners the illusion of getting true race technology in a sedan body. IMHO it is no coincidence that both the 2005 BMW Formula 1 race engine and the BMW M5 engine share the main characteristics: 10 cylinders, high- reving, naturally aspirated engine. If you want to win a race with a cntemporary F1 race car, setup is everything. Today, most of the setup of a race car is done by a laptop linked to the car systems. BMW offers you a race technology car with integrated setup. I think, this is not a bad idea to market a car which is otherwise not very useful in public traffic. To me both M5 and M6 are rolling gameboys for big kids.
Obviously BMW was not interested to give the car the maximum of performance, otherwise they simply would have used a turbocharger or a bigger engine. For comparison: a Mercedes CLS 65 AMG with 5 speed torque converter auto gearbox simply outperforms a M5 at 0-60;- )
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To me both M5 and M6 are rolling gameboys

Maybe. Have you driven one?

Not that it matters much, but not true.
RCE
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snipped-for-privacy@nowhere.com says...

What? BMW are interested in giving the maximum of performance, or an M5 will out drag a CLS65 to 60mph?
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says...

I've never driven (or seen for that matter) the CLS65, however edmunds.com has a road test on one.
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId 0631/pageNumber=1?synpartnermunds&pageurl=www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/spin/100631/article.html
If that link is too long, try: http://tinyurl.com/qwlul
According to the article, the CLS65 with the twin turbo V12 has a 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds, exactly the same that BMW claims for the '06 M5. The M5 has been faster than that in several other published road tests, the best being 4.1 seconds by, I believe, Road and Track.
RCE
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snipped-for-privacy@nowhere.com says...

You didn't have to say that. We know. No-one on this group has ever driven a CLS65 and I doubt any have seen one in the flesh. The same is probably even true in the aa.mercedes group.
One day.....

I got the first page, but after that it just kept trying to sell me money.

BMW and MB always claim 0-100km/h figures and are always slightly conservative with them. Any 0-60mp/h figures given out by their offices in the states are likely to be calculated.
BMW claim 4.7 seconds for the new M5, exactly the same as MB claim for the CLS55 AMG. MB claim 4.5 seconds for the CLS65 and you just need to look at the figures to see why. Although the CLS65 is 100Kg heavier, it has 612hp compared to the BMW's 507, and <cough> 738lb/ft torque compared to BM's 384.
The M5 just isn't going to keep up with that particular MB in a straight line, no matter how high they manage to push the power band up (and it is already very high). A look at www.dragtimes.com supports this. There are 3 2006 M5 speeds/times posted to the 1/8 mile which seem to hover just under the 8.2 seconds (ignore the 5.345, an obvious error, it was 8.037).
There are, unsurprisingly, no times yet registered for the CLS65 (or even the CLS63) but two times registered for the CLS55 compare favourably to the M5. Of course, the drivers who did these times aren't professionals and the only way we will be able to compare is when one professional driver tests both cars. I don't think this has been done yet.
Of course, as awesome as AMG's tuned 65 is (and I love AMG and Brabus tuned Mercedes), it doesn't /drive/ like a Bemmer.
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says...

I've noticed the lack of torque. It's definitely a learning process to adjust to the car's characteristics, especially the SMG. For the first week or so my left foot was jumping around looking for a clutch everytime I came up to a stop light or sign. Being more accustom to big old, low revving American V8s, this car is quite an experience. But, I am getting there. It may not have much low end torque, but when I finally got the nerve to get the RPMs up, it becomes quite impressive. Everything seems to come together at about 6,000 RPM and the car just leaps forward.
Fun car.
RCE
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According to german car mag auto motor sport the BMW M5 needs 4.7 seconds for 0-60 mph acceleration (to be precse: 0-100 kph) in quick launch mode, while the Mercedes needs 4.5 seconds.
My point is that it becomes more and more hard to make a real super performance sedan, when your ordinary sedans also perform super. Back in the early 80's the first BMW M5 was a blast: a 5'series with a M1 racing engine! The car had 286 hp and 360 nm torque, very impresssive in a time when the top model of the 5-series had 100 hp less. Today an ordinary 540i has more than 300 hp and 390 nm torque, the top-of- the line Diesel 535d with twin-turbocharger has 272 hp and hefty 580 nm torque. 0-60 acceleration of both cars is about the same as the acceleration of the first M5 (around 6.5 seconds). To me it does not make sense just to add a vast quantity of hp to such a car. Besides that BMW added a vast amount of gadgets. If someone just wants to drive a fast BMW sedan, he can also buy a BMW 550i, 5.5 seconds from 0-60 should do in most of all driving situations;-)
Frank
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haute in die Tasten:

I agree with you, and if a 1980s vintage M5 in like new condition were available, I probably would be very happy to own and drive it. The '06 M5 is a first for me, although we've owned several other BMWs in the past, and it's still a pleasure to drive, gadgets and all.
RCE
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An American obsession...
;-) DAS
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from all reports I have seen, once you understand idrive, it becomes simple and a habit that is easy. Only newbies to idrive have the complaint.
I could be wrong, but every new gadget has value, once you "get it".
I have an e34 540 and an e46 330xi, neither have any complicated features, but I bet you that with some practice and an open mind, you will change your attitude.
If you can figure out a PC, then it can't be that hard!
I would be more than happy to spend a day learning if I was going to drive home a new M5!
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Charlie Uses KY wrote:

Ah, but here's the rub Charlie (bad pun intended)...
How often do you replace your PCs?
They are usually technically obsolete a few moments after you buy them (if not before). We suffer along for a year or two alright, and within 4 years they become useless boat anchors and completely unbearable.
Now, how often would you like to have to replace replace your car?
Point in case: Your E34 is a perfectly serviceable car right now, though it's at least 12 years old. There is something to be said about the longevity of the standard electrical switch design.
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This one ain't a PC but is originally '96. With a few upgrades.

Just what makes them obsolete? What cutting edge work do you do with it? I do have a modern PC for video editing etc but prefer this old beast for everything else.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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You've pretty much summed up why I went to great effort to locate a 2003 E39 after the production facility closed down in preparation for the E60. While the E60 represents certain advances over its predecessor, the many sacrifices (cheesy interior, why-drive, etc) make it a one step forward, two back IMO.
There are those who love their E60's, but they don't seem to have the passion for their cars the E39 inspired.
R / John

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Do not know how it is in your edge of the world, but in Germany you have the choice to buy your E90 in two dash versions. One dash holds the big center LCD screen, and you get an iDrive with it (which makes sense for controlling the Navi system). The other dash comes without the screen, without the big bulb for the screen, without iDrive - and without a navi. But if one wants ho have a current BMW the way they made them decades before, he definitely does not need a navi;-)
Frank
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haute in die Tasten:

Thank you very much for adding your comments JM and Frank.
davidT
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