is250 vs. 325i

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I am interested in trading my Acura TL, and have narrowed the most likely possible replacements to the Lexus is250 and the BMW 325i, both with manual
transmission.
I am interested in whatever input anyone might have. I have owned a number of Toyotas over the years, but no Lexus and no BMW.
I have heard that Lexus takes Toyota's quality and attention to detail to the next level, and that in the long run BMW is very expensive to maintain. I have friends who own both - and swear they wouldn't drive anything else.
Suggestions, pros, cons, all info would be appreciated.
Many thanks.
Robert
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I don't know why people say that BMWs are expensive to maintain. The Camry that I bought my mom has cost about the same as my 330xi. Some parts for my T100 cost *MORE* than the same part for my 330xi - for instance the starter solenoid went out and the entire starter had to be replaced; the O2 sensor is TWICE as expensive as those on BMWs. My wife's Highlander has more often maintenance intervals; in aggregate they cost what it does for my 330xi. And the maintenance on the BMW is free for 4yrs/50K.
YMMV.
FloydR
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Floyd Rogers wrote:

...in the US.
--
-Fred W

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This is the way my father in law explained it to me 30 years ago: "the Germans are quite up front about maintenance costs. The Japanese want you to believe their cars are cheaspre cheap to maintain but in reality they cost about the same".
Volvo parts seem the be THE most expensive.
--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
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snipped-for-privacy@news.vrx.net (Richard Sexton) wrote:

Not true.
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On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:38:17 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"

    According to Edmunds.com, the cost per mile for the 2003 Lexus IS 300 is .60 cents, while a 2003 330i is .63 cents, averaged over 5 years of ownership while driving 15,000 miles/year.     epbrown -- "Everybody wants a normal life and a cool car; most people will settle for the car." Chris Titus 2003 BMW 325i Black/Black, 2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black
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E Brown wrote:

...which, considering the method of acquiring the data, is statistically insignificant.
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I suspect that this statistic only includes regularly scheduled maintenance. In other words, it probably assumes no repairs.
It would be interesting to see cost of ownership statistics that factor in the well-known difference in repair history between Lexus and BMW and/or MB.
But dollar cost isn't the only measure. I put a significant value on the time I spend in the repair shop and the stress that time adds to my life.
You guys talk about the "driving experience." My "driving experience" is greatly diminished when my car is in the repair shop. Also, when both cars are operating properly I *prefer* the Lexus ride.
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    Actually, I was a little surprised that the figures, which are broken out on the web site, included both maintenance and repairs. I don't know about Toyota's warranty, but for the 2003 330i there shouldn't be expenses for either for another couple of years - maintenance and repairs are covered by the respective warranties. I went to the dealership recently to get a bulb for my left headlight, and everyone kept trying to convince me to bring it around to the service department to fix it.

    I'd be interested as well. I currently keep Excel spreadsheets for both my BMWs, but there's not much there yet - the only expenses have been fuel, insurance, and 4 light bulbs (one turn signal on the 325i, the Z4 driver's side headlight mentioned above, and two Philips bulbs when I decided to go with brighter headlights on the Z4).     Oh, I also added the Auxiliary Audio Kit to both cars to play my mp3 player through the stereo, which was ~$100 for the kits - I installed them myself.     epbrown -- "Everybody wants a normal life and a cool car; most people will settle for the car." Chris Titus 2003 BMW 325i Black/Black, 2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black
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snipped-for-privacy@news.vrx.net (Richard Sexton) wrote:

I wouldn't buy a German car with YOUR money. (Been there, done that.)
And yes, I "get" German cars. German cars are the expensive, pouty, and high-maintenance mistresses of the road. Damn, they are a fine, fine ride...
....but then the maintenance and pouting kicks in.
At some point, without unlimited funds, you are at a decision point: continue the high-priced, high-maintenance fun, or go back home and enjoy your reliable Lexus wife of a car, patiently sitting there waiting for you to get over the midlife crisis.
Oh sure, she's not as sexy as the German car, and she doesn't handle at the edge like the German car. She's also not as fickle and high maintenance and pouty, and she agrees with you much more of the time. She's always there and never complains, and you come to realize there's more to life than a high-maintenance relationship with a pouty, high-maintenance woman--no matter how sexy she is or how fun the nights out with her can be. Because when she lets you down and demands more of you than you have to give, and treats you like dirt, you're standing there all alone outside the club, looking and feeling like an idiot.
Your Lexus wife would never, ever do that to you.
And the occasional fun night out isn't worth what you end up paying for it, both financially and in time wasted while you wait for the German car mistress to be in the mood to play.
Do this: start paying attention to cars with tail light and headlight problems. What brands of cars are you seeing? That's right--VW, M-B, and BMW. And pay attention to how old, or rather how new, those problem cars are.
The reality of electrical issues with German cars make Lucas electrics look reliable.
Now *try* to find a Honda or Toyota, either low brand or high brand, no matter how old, with non-working tail lights. Good luck.
It's a small thing, but it represents the reality of the situation. You want to buy a German car? Just buy a GM car. At least the money you're throwing away stays more inside the country--and you get just as reliable a car.
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Try buying a German car that's not thrashed. I've had new Japanese cars and old German cars and the Germans cars have been far far cheaper to maintain.
Just another data point.
--
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Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
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snipped-for-privacy@news.vrx.net (Richard Sexton) wrote:

Pardon me, but that's utter and complete bullshit.
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No, that's been my experience. You may not agree. That's ok reaosnable people disagree all the time.
--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
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There's no bias towards German cars at all in that post . . . from someone that sells Mercedes parts. I am also biased, as I have an IS350.
When thinking of long term costs, it is possible that German cars are cheaper. Remember how mechanics/dealers get cheaper parts, other cars that break. With more German cars breaking in the long term, there will be more available parts, increasing the supply, and dropping the price :-)
-b
Richard Sexton wrote:

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I don't sell parts and don't make a cent off any parts sold. I've been answering the question "where can I get parts" for so long I simply include it ina sigfile so I don't have to answer it any more.

Fantasy. 90% of the parts for a 50's 190SL are still available from the factory. Try getting a door handle for a 240Z and lemme now how that works out.
German cars age well. They're meant to be repaired. There's lots of old ones about. Japanese cars don't age they're recycled into cans.
In the short term, say after the warrenty expires to about 10 yrs perhaps Japanese cars are cheaper to maintain (although this wasn't my experience with a half dozen of them) but longer term? Fuggetaboutit.
While the warrenty is in effect it's all the same.
Keep in mind my newset car is 23 years old. Maybe it's me but I don't see a lot of 23 year old Japaense cars running around.
You no doubt like your car(s) and I like mine and I'm happy for that but I spent a lifetime finding out my dad was wrong about the cost of fun cars. And I'd hate to think anybody made a decision to buy a Japanese car over one that was more fun because of something stupid somebody said on usenet.
--
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snipped-for-privacy@news.vrx.net (Richard Sexton) wrote:

And I'd hate to think anybody made a decision to buy a "fun" car over one that made much more sense because of something stupid somebody said on usenet.
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

Life is too short to drive *boring* cars, even if they cost less to operate (but they probably don't, you just want to think they do)
--
-Fred W

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Thanks for admitting that they probably do cost more to operate.
Life is full of choices. I'd rather choose the "boring" car that puts a smile on my face every day, knowing that the money I'm saving allows me to do other, MUCH more fun things in life than driving.
And let's face it: how much time does the average American spend in his car every day? How much of that is stop-and-go vs freeway or open road driving? There isn't much open road time in people's lives. The German car costs quite a bit of money for what it ultimately offers.
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

Yeah, I agree. I don't get this "boring car" stuff. And the "ultimate driving machine" crappola from BMW never was anything to me but hooey and hype. Lots of cars now offer great handling and good performance, AND my BMW doesn't even handle that well.

Yep, and in the US, there are enforced things, like speed limits.... and nowadays especially, if you decide to open the beamer up on a straightaway, and hurt anybody (even if sober and straight), you're likely looking at time in prison.

What my beamer offers is great looks and speed. What it lacks is reliability (a big downside) and a comfortable interior. It's likely gonna be Lexus, or even Toyota, for me next time.
(During the first 85,000 miles, I've needed a new auto tranny; cat coverter; electric window motors; windows becoming out of alignment for no apparent reason; door lock failure, wheel shimmies whose cause cannot be found; new thermostat; new secondary air flow pump; new AC blower motor [along with failures of the motor on TWO OTHER occasions due to electronic component failures on circuitboard]; emissions control problem that can't be found without extensive effort; hood paint bubbling up due to factory flaw in seam under lip of hood; new [or refurbished] instrument cluster [and sometimes the one installed now acts up]; and several more minor electrical problems. In all, I have spend MANY thousands of dollars in repairs.
----- Kill ratio of Palestinian children to Israeli children 5.7-to-1, Israel's favor. Kill ratio of all Palestinians to Israelis: over 3-to-1. --------- http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/print/mear01_.html ---------- "Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." ---Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 2001
--
Cliff


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Your sig is a fabricated lie promulgated by hate groups. Are you aware of that, Cliff?
See: http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue73&x_article73
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