Wrong Oil?

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On 18 Apr 2005 17:38:16 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@dsl.pipex.com (Clive Turnbull) wrote:


Thanks Clive, the chart you sent me explains many things and mobil 1 is just not necessary for me at all. Thanks again. pete
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On April 19 2005, you wrote:

Pleasure Pete, although I am sure not everyone will agree! Still it does come "straight from the horses mouth" so to speak. Happy motoring! Regards Clive
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C S Turnbull
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Clive Turnbull wrote:

a
or
the
some
I doubt using a proper weight "conventional" oil in typical US change periods is going to kill the engine. However - the most available motor oil in the US on BMW's current approval list is probably Mobil 1 0W-40, which is specifically formulated for long drain periods. Just as an aside, I've seen it in some Wal-Mart stores for about $4.40 per US quart (946 ml). This should be the equivalent of what's sold in Europe.
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In the UK, Mobil 1 0W-40 costs approx 35 to 40 for 4 litres which is approx 9 for a US Quart, which is approx 17 USD ($) or about four times the price.
Thought you US guys might be interested ?
Nick
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On April 19 2005, you wrote:

Yes, so send us a 1000ltrs or so!! BTW The "Conventional" oils you refer to( not you Nick, previous post) are all BMW recommended for normal service intervals. My quotes are not my own but from the Main Dealer TIS CD. I can mail a copy to anyone interested. Cheers Clive
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Clive Turnbull wrote:

Clive,
Make sure that the chart you are looking at on the TIS is not "old news". I think there are still some application charts with very old dates on mine (TIS) and if the cahrt predates the car I am not so sure that they would apply.
I do know that for all 3 of my BMW cars (a 1994, a 1995 and 1997 MYs) the conventional oil is prescribed. But I think they went to recomending *only* straight synthetic sometime later. Probably to boost sales of their own oil. ;-)
-Fred W
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On April 20 2005, you wrote:

> that they would apply.

Chart is from 2003 TIS Cheers Clive
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Clive Turnbull wrote:

Yes, but what is the date on the top of the page? Even the latest TIS CDs have some very old stuff tucked away in them.
-Fred W
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Clive Turnbull wrote:

Clive,
Here is an excerpt from a model year 2000 Owner's Manual:
"Specified engine oils The quality of the engine oil is extremely important for the function and life of an engine. Based on extensive testing, BMW has approved only certain types of engine oils.
Use only approved "BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil." If you are unable to obtain "BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil," you may use small volumes of other approved synthetic oils for topping up between oil changes. Use only oils with the specification API SH or higher.
Ask your BMW center for details concerning the specific "BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil" or other synthetic oils that have been approved.
You can also call BMW of North America at 1-800-831-1117 or visit this website: www.bmwusa.com to obtain this information."
So you see, from at least year 2000, BMW has recomended *ONLY* synthetic oil be used.
-Fred W
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Fred If you have the latest Autodata CD2 you will see that they also specify alternative oils usually three or four types right up to 2004 for all models except M5's and the like, I also checked the BMW TIS page as you suggest and the "issue status" is Feb 2004. Are you sure you are not looking at Long life Oil Recommendations? Cheers Clive
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Clive Turnbull wrote:

Clive,
what is "Autodata CD2"?
Also, the excerpt was taken directly from an electronic copy of the Owners manual of a 2000 525i, US version, that I grabed off the BMW USA web site.
-Fred W
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On April 22 2005, you wrote:

The Autodata CD2 is the latest trade software covering all cars in Europe.
I have saved some stuff as a pdf file out of it on your model in Europe. If you can confirm your email address by mailing me I can send you an Autodata sample
I may be wrong but the more we discuss this I feel that the BMW oil specs may be different than in Europe. Am I right in thinking that climates in USA may vary from Arctic to desert and if BMW wish to play it safe the obvious thing to do would be to recommend an oil that covered all USA climates hence Mobil 1. Here in Europe perhaps they do it by the country they export to. Just a guess. BTW I did email you the graph out of the TIS, don't know whether you received it, I removed the word "SPAM" out of your address. Regards Clive
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Clive Turnbull wrote:

Oh, OK. That's sort of what I thought. It is not the manufacturer's recommendations, but some other servicing group's recommendations.

Not necessary. It was not my car that was being discussed. I use the oil I want (Mobil1) even though my cars predate the need for synthetic oil.

Yes, I did receive the scanned page, and interestingly enough it includes verbiage that seems to prove my point.
The second section titled "BMW Longlife Oils:". I quote below: "BMW longlife oils, as specified for all BMW vehicles since 1998, are tested by BMW..."
This sure seems the same as the quote I gave you from a US market, MY 2000 owners manual that said the owner should *only* use BMW synthetic oil unless unavailable.
-Fred W
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Malt_Hound wrote:

It sounds similar to the US company Alldata, which compiles various manufacturers' technical service bulletins, and packages them for distribution to mechanics.
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On April 22 2005, you wrote:

>

Sure, sure but what about the rest of the document you fail to mention. I AGREE about the Longlife, never said I didn't. I can't say or argue against what your US documentation says as I am UK based. The PDF file from Autodata CD2 is approved by manufacturers for the Motor Trade and shows there ARE alternatives as does the document I sent you. Can't really see why this is such an issue for you. I have worked on these cars for forty five years and never had a lubrication problem. If you wish to call the European oil specs rubbish that is your choice but I will continue to adhere to them, after all it is a European vehicle! I appreciate that if you can buy the top stuff for a few dollars well use it! If you look at previous UK posts you will see it is a lot different here. For the man just running to the golf club in his Jaguar a sump full of oil could cost over 60 and to a lot of people over here think that's a rip off. The point I am trying to make is: There is a choice! PDF file on the way. Cheers Clive PS "BMW longlife oils, as specified for all BMW vehicles since 1998" This simply means that vehicles after this date can use Longlife Oils otherwise why list the alternatives?
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Clive Turnbull wrote:

Nah. I think BMW is pretty much telling consumers to ignore the standard API specs and look for an oil meeting their own more stringent specs. Any oil meeting the BMW LL-01 specs is likely to be OK, and several of these oils are relatively inexpensive here in the US.
Several of these oil aren't truly "synthetic" though in the traditional sense of a PAO and/or ester based product. Some of them are "Group III" petroleum oils, such as Valvoline SynPower 5W-40 or Castrol Syntec.
I found it curious that Valvoline SynPower 5W-40 only claims to meet the BMW LL-98 spec, although this product datasheet could be outdated.
<https://www.valvoline-technology.com/data/valv/prodinfo.nsf/0/85256AE300727D2B85256CF700710A8C /$file/SynPower+Motor+Oils.pdf?OpenElement>
I think the 5W-40 version of Castrol Syntec meets BMW LL-01. There's also the legendary green 0W-30 oil with the whiff of gummy bear odor dubbed "German Castrol" by American VW owners. That one was known to be a true PAO + ester base compared to the Group III + ester base of the other Castrol Syntec oils. There's a big disappointment because of an apparent change in formula.
<http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_syntec_usa.pdf
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On April 20 2005, you wrote:

>

Forgot to mention I filled in OP's year & model and then took it from there. Your probably right though about them making more money. Thanks & Cheers Clive
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nick smith wrote:

The price I quoted was for the single quart bottles. I haven't seen the 0W-40 in larger containers, but their 5W-30/10W-30 can be as low as $19 +tax for the 5 quart jugs.
<http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_0W-40.aspx
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y_p_w wrote:

Yes, Mobil 1 was available at Walmart for $18.99 (no sales tax in NH, thank-you) for the 5 quart bottles the last time I stocked up...
-Fred W
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Malt_Hound wrote:

<http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_0W-40.aspx
Yes, but was it the 0W-40? :-)
Seriously though, the 0W-40 is the only Mobil 1 product sold in the US that meets BMW LL-01 standard. I understand there's a Mobil 1 5W-40 in Europe that also meets the standard. I think I've also seen some Castrol (don't trust them anymore) and Valvoline oils that are labelled as meeting the spec.
There are a few 5W-30 or 0W-30 oils that meet the BMW LL-01 spec. Motul has a BMW-specific 5W-30 oil (this place lists it at $7.80/ liter):
<http://www.motorspot.com/Specific_LL-01_5W-30_8228_ (GB).pdf>
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