Re: Gas prices aren't dropping

FBR must be a lawyer.

That's why petrol is so (too) cheap in the US. Try tax at USD 2 - 3 per gallon.

DAS

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"Too" cheap?

Please.

bp

Most people don't realize that in "real" (i.e., inflation adjusted) terms, gasoline was at an all-time low price in late 1998. Of course, crude oil was also at an all-time low then (about $11/barrel - or 26 cents/gallon).

And per-mile cost of operating a vehicle in the US is near an all-time low. Car prices are actually coming down in nominal, as well as real terms. For example, and entry-level Saturn cost $12,000 in 1997, but today an equivalent car costs $11,500.

Gasoline taxes in the US are one of the few taxes that are more or less appropriate: both the feds, and most states, set the tax at a rate that is sufficient to generate about enough revenue for roadway maintenance and expansion.

bp

Compare the rise in gas costs vs. the rise in health care costs over the same period. I go to the doctor, sit in the waiting room for an hour. Go back to the exam room, sit for 1/2 an hour. The doc comes in and takes my temp, asks what my symptoms are and writes a script. His total time invested: 15 minutes. My cost: $60...in addition to the $300/mo I pay for insurance. Hey, is there another profession where I can make $240 an hour?

Not to mention high legal insurance premiums in the US, as I understand it. (Unfortunately these are rising in the UK, too. The Brits are getting more litigeous; maybe that's not a bad thing.)

DAS

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Indeed. And don't forget the salaries of the secretaries and accountants and sales reps whose time can't be billed out. I certainly don't begrudge entrepreneurs the profits they make from selling other people's labour. Hell, how much of the risk did I take?

Sooner or later, I'd like to be in my ex-boss's shoes, but the ugly truth is that for every consulting firm that makes it, 4 or 5 fail. It's not an easy gig.

bp

Let's see here. Gas is refined the same way now as it was in 1951, plus or minus a few safety vavles and the disallowance of certain (lead) additives.

Cadillacs now have, power seats, alarms, lo-jack, on-star, HID lights, abs breaks, airbags, 5, mph safety bumpers, higher build quality, more costly labor, electronics, cruise control, fuel injection, 7 computers, more sensors then you can count, catalytic converters, smog equipment, ean on and on. Gee, wonder why they cost more. Oh, and you can get a caddy CTS for $30,695 not $50,000. A deville starts at $35,000.

Better? MTBE? Yes, stuff that leaks into the groundwater through new tanks is much better and safer. Especially since it got banned, you know, that cancer and stillborn babies and all.

Duh, fuel injection?

You have the internet in front of you. Please use it for research so I don't need to here you dribble on.

Brian

You forget that the US gets most of its petrol from North America and Venezuela, not the Arab states. If we had to depend on OPEC for the majority of our supply, then we'd be paying at least what you guys are paying at the pump.

Sounds like this whole group is singing from the same prayer book. Do you all have energy stock per chance... In 1951 you could buy a gallon of gas for .19 to 21 cents ( I was there) and your average 51 Cadillac could get about 16 to 20 miles per gallon. Some later models in the late 60's and early 70's got lousy mileage more probably in the 8 to 12 mpg range. Comparisons to European fuel costs are bullshit their problem is 90 percent tax, and they're are goofy enough to go along with it. They think its normal because they have been getting hosed for so long they think it's normal. The Enron lesson sure didn't go far with you folks..

Dale P..........

Barry, Explain why 13 wells had to be shut down in the Lake Tahoe area one of the pristine areas of the planet. From what I've read locally MTBE is cheap, but of coursed still raises the cost of fuel. No need to let a little poison screw up the bottom line.... Dale P..........

Not anymore. Venezuela is no longer a democracy. Chavez is the man now, he order the discontinuation of elections until further notice about 19 months ago. The oil production from them is down to 1/3 what is was 4 years ago. The military is in power. Unemployment in that region has increased 5 fold. Incidentally, Venezuela is a part of OPEC.

Brian

Sorry, wrong. Our 'problem' is taxes, as Dale Petersen quite rightly pointed out. What's more, for some years the UK was a net exporter of crude, but that had no effect on fuel price levels

Whether we are being 'hosed' is another question. It's just another way of raising taxes, as the amount flowing into government coffers has long been far greater than being spent on roads.

Actually in many European countries it is thought that there is no further need for new motorways as they simply generate more traffic.

BTW I personally don't agree with this and believe, as far as the UK is concerned, that lots of the decision-making politicians don't spend any time on Britain's main arteries, observing the heavy goods traffic going unecessarity slowly because of SWOT (sheer weight of traffic) (and never mind the passenger cars).

DAS

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Nonsense. The world oil price is set by OPEC, and everybody pays the same price(*), regardless of who they buy from. Crude oil landed at Houston or pipelined across the Canadian border costs the same as oil landed at Rotterdam or Milford Haven.

bp

(* With small variations for product quality and shipping costs)

And that is why gas costs more, right? Because it is cheaper to manufacture? You proved one of my points already.

Environmental

What email? Isn't this the usenet?

Prove it. Please reference your statement to current medical records.

Your statement: "> Was it bad the MTBE got into some water supplies? Yes. Did it hurt the

Your statement says that it did not harm 95% of the people. So what happened to the other 5%? Changing your story and backpedling?

Added CO(1) and HC? I was saying ozone, but if you want to change the subject so you sound like you actually know what you are talking about, fine. Post a link to some independent test results. Post a link to information stating that injuries related to ozone have DECREASED since the introduction of MTBE. That is what I'm asking for. Too bad you didn't understand that.

Nice how you edited out my links to reliable information and the excerpts I posted proving you to be wrong. Your still dribbling,

Brian

Gas doesn't cost more. The component that is left after taxes and crude prices is about the same. It has decreased to some degree because of technology improvements, and increased to some degree due to increased regulatory requirements. Adjusted for inflation, it has been fairly mean-reverting, although not without significant volatility in some markets.

My e-mail address is quite clearly a university. Hence, it is unlikely that I work for an oil company.

You do understamd that cars do not create ozone, right? That they produce precursor chemicals, such as Co and hydrocarbons that react in the presence of sunlight and oxygen to create low-level ozone. Do you understand that?

The California Air resources Board is quite clear about the benefits that have accrued from the use of reformulated gasoline.

Are you claiming that there is no benefit to be had from using RFG? I believe the American Lung Association has a lot of good information on the health hazards of low-level ozone. But I'm not going to do all the work for you.

That statement doesn't make much sense. Do you mean "you're still dribbling", or are you referring to a leak from a distillation device? If you are, the phrase should be "your still is dribbling". But I don't own a still.

I apologize for being snarky if English isn't your first language.

bp

Led Sleddin' rambled on about something in :

Re: MTBE's. Didn't CA outlaw them, or quit using them a few years back? Something (IIRC) about them causing cancer...

NOI

On whose part? The government's? Think about it next time you go into a hospital you don't pay zillions in insurance premiums for...

DAS

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Barry Posner wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@psu.edu:

Shhhh! Don't say those things! Everyone _knows_ that business owners are all greedy so-and-so's who ought to be paying 100% of the gross business income out as salaries. Just ask the AFL-CIO... ;)