Crankshaft Oil seal

One piece. If you are going to do it yourself, the transmission doesn't have to come "out", but it does need to move back about 6 inches to get the flywheel off. If you have a transmission jack, this isn't too hard to do on a piece of level paved ground. It would be a good idea to change the torque convertor seal while you are at it, which means moving it back about a foot.

John, Is this necessity to pull back the tranny specific to the 5.7? I replaced a flywheel on a 2.8L V6 w/o touching the bell-housing bolts, and thus it sounds odd. If it's like the 2.8 I would think it would be possible to pull the dust cover (hopefully the exhaust is not covering it), remove the 3 bolts from the torque converter-fly wheel, remove the fly wheel (flex plate), and replace the seal. And regarding the seal, it may be hard to get the old one out. I recently changed one on the 2.8L that was really easy because I had the engine out and the crank loose. Will it easily come out/in w/o touching the crank-cap-bolts? Is there a tool for it? Elliott

Why wasn't your flex plate (fly wheel = manual) attached the crank shaft!!?? That would mean allot of spin and no-go! I can see taking off the flex plate bolts as you say, but not taking out the flex plate without pulling back the tranny!!!!!????????????

~KJ~

It can be done, but as I said, I'd want to change the torque convertor seal anyway while I was at it. Working up in those tight spaces is more aggravating to me than the couple minutes it takes to pull the bell housing bolts. Couple foot long extensions, one with a wobble end, and an air ratchet. Takes longer to pull the rest of the stuff off, but I can have it backed up in less than 20 minutes. I'm not fast anymore.

Technically, it can be done. If you have a wrench that could get to the flywheel bolts. As I said though, trying to get up in there is more trouble than pulling the tranny. I haven't done it, but I know there is enough room for the flywheel bolts to fall out, so it should be possible to remove it.

"Elliott" wrote

Wow, Elliott....you should quit your job and go work as a technician if you can get the flywheel out of 2.8 v6 w/o touching the bellhousing bolts. In fact, just go be a magician.

Ian

"KJ" wrote

Elliott's a magician. Normal mechanics are not able to pull off this stunt.

Ian

"John Alt" wrote

You too, John?! You guys are good to be able to get the flywheel off of a 2.8 v-6 without pulling back the transmission. In fact, you guys are too good to be true.

Ian

Then removing a seal, and what about putting it back IN? Not to mention this would be a magic wrench - in my opinion. Able to get in a TIGHT location, and remove some tight bolts without spreading. (My opinion you would have to use an open-end wrench to even get on the bolt.

~KJ~

"John Alt" wrote

No, it can't be done "technically". I've done many flywheel replacements on both RWD GM vehicles, and FWD GM vehicles, and even if you could get the bolts out, you cannot get the flywheel out. Shake your head a bit, and try to remember what is in the center of the torque convertor and engages the end of the crankshaft. I've removed many a flywheel by installing two long bell housing bolts and sliding the transmissions back a bit, but the trans has to come back at least 1-2 inchs. And then, removing a one-piece seal and re-installing it, even with the trans out a couple inches, would be an almost impossible task. If you could do it, there would be absolutely no guarantee that it wouldn't leak as soon as you started it up. I can only imagine what sort of "special" seal installing tool would be used.

Do you guys always just fly by the seat of your pants when throwing out this incorrect information?

Ian

Dang,

Here I thought I didn't own enough Snap-On wrenches to git this job done as described. ;-)

Thanks Ian. :-).

Respectfully submitted,

Loren Knighton Woodland, CA.

Under the hood since 1964 Member TRNI IATN

OK here's the whole story (Yes I did replace the flex plate w/o touching the bell-housing bolts). Though as I noted I'm not so sure the rear main seal would come out (unless there's a special tool or funny bent screw driver to pry with - I'm asking about that!)... A few buddies and I got a junker 85 S-10 and rebuilt it bumper to bumper. When the blown engine was pulled, the torque converter wasn't loosened from the flywheel. Consequently it slightly bent the font shaft of the tranny, and after a few hundred miles from becomming road-worthy, it broke the flex-plate (right around the bolts; had a bur that caught and ran w/ occaisional slipping till it finally just spun). The flex plate was easy enough to change - and a long-handle spark-plug ratchet fit perfectly to the flex-plate bolts. I think the starter may have had to come loose to get it out of the cavity. Later, before the new flex-plate broke, Bro changed the tranny (parts truck special). Recently, I removed/installed a flex-plate while on the engine stand, and that time I did have to loosen the starter (1 bolt out) to get the flex plate in/out (w/ the bottom 2 bell-housing bolts holding the engine on the stand). Thus I'm certain a flex plate can be changed w/o removing bell-housing bolts (on a 2.8L). The thing that I'm not sure about and MATTERS to the original poster is wheather or not someone could get the old rear-seal out from within that small space without loosening the crankshaft (if the old one comes out the new one would be easy to install). Someone mentioned how easy it is to pull bell housing bolts - true on bigger trucks, but not on an S-10 (it's a PITA). How hard is it to get the rear seal out w/o loostening the crank??? The seal on the engine that I have on a stand right now doesn't seem to wanna budge. Is there a special tool or a trick to it? Who's the magician anyway? I just changed the seal on the engine I just built - and it was easy because the crank-bearing-caps were off. Can it really be done w/o loosening those? Elliott

"shiden_Kai" wrote in message news:...

"Elliott" wrote

Ok Elliott, I give up. You are too full of shit to even realize it. If you think that you can remove the flexplate without moving the transmission at all, there is nothing more to say. The worst thing is that you try to feed this crap to guys who do this day in and day out for a living. Believe me, as a flat rate tech, if I could figure out a way to get the flywheel out the way you "think" you did, I'd be a rich man.

Unbelievable!

Ian

Well Ian, you just need a "funny bent screwdriver". ROTFLMAO

If he didn't touch the bell housing bolts, I wonder who did? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Agree 100%. This whole story pegged my bull-shit meter.

We haven't heard from Gary on this one, so I can only imagine that he's laughing so hard that he injured himself.

Never mind that well over 100 years of combined experience says it can't be done. In my mind that takes to the level of 'pathological.'

Ya see Elliott, his is he part you don' get.... We're all well past the "trying things" stage. I don't need to try something that you suggest possible when I know full well that a solid steel wrench will not pass thru a solid steel flywheel, even if you do remove the starter motor and even though there might be holes in the flywheel.

On the other hand, I think here is a strong possibility that you (again) have your automotive components confused and all this that you're crowing about with pride and joy is in fact something totally different than what I and Ian and Loren (where's Gary?) know full damn well to be a flywheel (or flex-plate) on the ass end of a crankshaft.

Elliott, this is like claiming that the moon is made out of green cream cheese and if we don't believe you, "so what."

This one statement is much more revealing than you (in your naive way) can possibly imagine.

No it can't, you're imagining things.

On a truck, you'd need a wrench that takes a sharp 90* turn to make it past the flywheel in the very narrow space allowed where the starter -used- to be and the flywheel ring gear, then you'd need enough room to swing the wrench in the small starter opening, your wrench would have to have a exact counterpart wrench with the hex offset 30* so you can get a full 60* turn of the bolt to get to the next sequence of hex on the bolt head. _And_ you're going to need to exert some pretty hefty leverage on this wrench concoction to overcome the prevailing torque of the flywheel bolts into the crankshaft which is probably in excess of

60 ft.lbs. Not to mention that you'd be fishing the end of the wrench in blind because there is nothing to be seen peering in thru the starter opening or anywhere else. As for "on an engine stand," who cares, it's a moot point since the transmission is off anyway.

Well, let's see, I've done dozens and dozens of one piece rear main seals without loosening the main caps and I've done dozens and dozens of two piece rear main seals without loosening the main caps. No big trick other than you do kinda need an idea of what needs to be done to remove either type of seal without garfing the crankshaft, but that's all precluded on someone who emphatically insists that the flywheel can be removed with the transmission and/or bell housing untouched and mounted in place.

What you think you've done and what is actually being discussed are in all probability two -entirely- different things.

Gains you access to the flywheel to torque convertor bolts but there's no way in hell you can reach the flywheel to crankshaft bolts this way.

Big round sheetmetal disc that bolts to the end of the crankshaft, the torque convertor bolts to the big round disc. Not a whole lot of differences across the product line at GM.

What, you think Ian has been going to work for the last 20+ years and falling right to sleep?

There is little to be gained by dropping the crank.

It's a pressed in seal, what the hell is the big mystery?

Pulling the trans back a few inches is fine if all you're doing is replacing a broken flex-plate, but to replace a one piece rear main, you'll want some working room so you can get the old seal out without nicking up the crankshaft and plenty of room to drive the seal back in square and flush.