Crankshaft Oil seal

Neil, (a cc: for your 2nd location in the thread),

I'm not stupid like you seem to want to believe. Let's try this real simple...

1. Remove the 3 bolts that hold the flex plate onto the torque converter (remove the dust cover first (if it has one)).
2. Slide the torque converter back into the tranny (moves about an inch, and gives you access to the flex plate bolts).
3. Loosen or remove the starter
4. Insert a long handle swivel head ratchet with a 17mm socket to remove the flex plate bolts. Access is from the bottom between the flex plate and the torque converter; and not some little hole for the starter or the holes in the flex plate! And you will find there is more clearance than you had for the torque converter bolts - it's easier than this NG thinks.
5. Do the Seal (Neil says the old one WILL come out - though you'll need to be more of a contortionist than him).
6. Reinstall flex plate
7. Reinstall starter and torque converter.

Regarding the rear seals, they come out really really easy if the crankshaft main caps are loose. W/o loosening them I suppose you could/do pry one out - though I imagine it would be a pain in that tight space. On a bigger truck, like someone else already said, the bell housing bolts are easy enough to go for, but if I were doing it on an S-10 I would not go for the bell housing bolts. Gosh would anybody ever believe me if I did a rear seal w/o pulling any bell housing bolts and posted it? If ever I have an engine that blows a rear seal I will have to do it that way - will be another one that nobody else would ever do cause they just do what they're told by some book or something. Or who knows maybe someone reading this post will do it and tell us. ;-)

Denbigh, are you going to do this job soon? A pair of strong short screw-drivers should help getting that seal out.

Elliott

Neil Nels>

Sorry, no sale.

Ain't no way there's enough room to fit a ratchet head -and- a

17mm socket between the torque convertor and the flywheel to crankshaft bolts. second, I don't think I've ever seen GM use a bolt with a 17mm head. Very un-standard.

Of course they do, the seal is a press fit.

Can't imagine how you'd get a straight shot at it with the transmission in the way...

Yes it would be. You're not really applying yourself very well on this seal removal thing, and I'll be damned if I'm going to tell you how, mainly because it's so simple, it should be obvious.

"but if I were doing it" pretty much tells me that at this point all you have is a theory with zero application and zero success.

Well?

Of course we'd believe you, but it's a moot point because it isn't going to happen and if you listen real close, no one is holding their breath.

It's your time to waste as you so choose.

Oh puhleeze!!!!

Or, since these trucks have been on the market since 1982, someone would have done it already and we'd have already heard about it, like during the lunch hour at the training center when the mechanics in attendance tend to swap stories and shortcuts on how to beat flat rate. Jesus Mary and Joseph, how did we ever manage to fix a single vehicle before you came along?

And gouge the sealing surface on the crankshaft and the sealing surface on the block/rear cap resulting in a leak much worse and much more expensive to repair than the one you first went after.

Me too....... it should be pretty hilarious. Bob

wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net...

Seems like a lot of work you did since 12:48 am this morning when you didn't even know how to get a rear seal out:

OK here's the whole story (Yes I did replace the flex plate w/o touching the bell-housing bolts). Though as I noted I'm not so sure the rear main seal would come out (unless there's a special tool or funny bent screw driver to pry with - I'm asking about that!)... A few buddies and I got a junker 85 S-10 and rebuilt it bumper to bumper. When the blown engine was pulled, the torque converter wasn't loosened from the flywheel. Consequently it slightly bent the font shaft of the tranny, and after a few hundred miles from becomming road-worthy, it broke the flex-plate (right around the bolts; had a bur that caught and ran w/ occaisional slipping till it finally just spun). The flex plate was easy enough to change - and a long-handle spark-plug ratchet fit perfectly to the flex-plate bolts. I think the starter may have had to come loose to get it out of the cavity. Later, before the new flex-plate broke, Bro changed the tranny (parts truck special). Recently, I removed/installed a flex-plate while on the engine stand, and that time I did have to loosen the starter (1 bolt out) to get the flex plate in/out (w/ the bottom 2 bell-housing bolts holding the engine on the stand). Thus I'm certain a flex plate can be changed w/o removing bell-housing bolts (on a 2.8L). The thing that I'm not sure about and MATTERS to the original poster is wheather or not someone could get the old rear-seal out from within that small space without loosening the crankshaft (if the old one comes out the new one would be easy to install). Someone mentioned how easy it is to pull bell housing bolts - true on bigger trucks, but not on an S-10 (it's a PITA). How hard is it to get the rear seal out w/o loostening the crank??? The seal on the engine that I have on a stand right now doesn't seem to wanna budge. Is there a special tool or a trick to it? Who's the magician anyway? I just changed the seal on the engine I just built - and it was easy because the crank-bearing-caps were off. Can it really be done w/o loosening those? Elliott

Elliott, you damn fool..... you've had several intelligent people trying to explain things to you with no luck at all. Your problem is you don't know the difference between a flexplate and a crank pulley but you refuse to listen to anyone who does. Your loss............ Bob

Okay, lets try the direct approach. You are either a liar, too damn stupid to know what you are saying, or both. I've pretty much decided the third option is the case. Bob

Bob,

I could have my dog take a dump on a plate and give it to Elliott with a knife and fork, and he would refuse to believe it's shit and eat it, just because I told him it was shit and that he shouldn't eat it. "Well you see Doc, refried beans often mimic the appearance of dog shit and carry much the same odor..............."

Those who "know it all" learn nothing new.

Doc

Let me clarify. I said it could theoretically could be done. I based that statement on the fact that the flex plates bolts can fall out (I've fixed a couple that had a bolt or two under the TC cover), and the fact that I've had to lift the TC to get it into the pilot bushing on at least a few occasions. I also said I'd never tried it, and wasn't going to. I don't know how, if you did get it out, that you could get the bolts back in. I also stated that if this procedure was possible, the aggravation at attempting this maneuver wasn't worth the effort. If you've got an air ratchet, you've got the transmission backed up in just a few minutes. Which is less time than the magic wrench could get even one or two flywheel bolts out. You'd never get a ratchet up in there, and you'd never do the seal. As I said earlier, I back it up about a foot to do the seal (and I almost ALWAYS do the TC front seal at the same time), and about however far I can push the tranny back without dropping the cross member to do the flex plate.

Let's see... 4 professional mechanics with combined experience of well over 100 years saying no way, versus one back-yarder (and an EE to boot) who just so happens to have managed to drag out a simple no voltage to the ECM 'B' circuit for two weeks.

Naaaahhhh, we couldn't possibly be right.

"Looser?" Hate to be a spell pecker here but the way you abominate the english language makes it pretty hard to believe anything you claim. That and the fact that insults just don't quite have much pazazz when the person issuing the insult gets egg on his face in the process.

No, his exact words were:

You might want to try reading for comprehension. If you need 6" to get the flywheel off, do you suppose that just maybe you'll need even more room to R & R the rear main oil seal? Do you suppose that maybe the tool for installing that rear main seal is at least 6" long to begin with?

Yes but it was all based upon no one back then ever having gone that far to find out. That argument doesn't quite work here because between myself, Bob, Gary and Ian, we've collectively pulled more transmissions to replace leaking seals and cracked flywheels than the number of cars you're going to see going the opposite direction on your trip to New York.

And I'd be surprised if this isn't a repeat failure, just like his rear axle repairs probably are.

He has no reason to do that.

I said the seal can be -removed- without pulling the main cap. I never said anything about -prying- it out, on the contrary, I'm pretty sure a cautioned against that in order to avoid nicking, scratching, gouging and/or garfing the precision surfaces on the crankshaft and cylinder block. Unlike you Elliott, the rest of us do not consider a 5lb hammer and a wrecking bar to be our primary tools.

This makes absolutely NO sense at all. (surprise)

"Wrench?"

You were claiming to have done this with a ratchet and a 17mm socket. bullshit

Bingo Doc........... It's sad when someone so clueless thinks they "know it all" Bob

Very good grasshopper.

Too bad it's used to remove and replace a 'rope' seal.

No wonder you are in an extreme state of confusion, you don't even understand what type of rear main seal your truck has.

More egg on your face (you better wipe).

You talk pretty smart for someone who doesn't have the first clue.

I guess it'll make anything fit, 'eh?

You should probably do the world a favor and just use it for pulling weeds.