req: info towing 5th wheel basics

First thing to read is the owners manual. My Chevy truck manual has about 3 pgs on it. Tow-Haul just moves up the shift points, esp when accelerating. If your tranny shifts a lot when cruising, use a lower gear so it doesn't.

Marv

I drive tractor trailer, so I would like to offer help on descending any hill. Make sure you have calibrated the trailer brakes per the brake controller and trailers instructions. If you have any questions, stop at your favorite local RV/camper shop. Once you know a steep grade is coming up, slow down before you crest the hill and let the engine do some of the braking for you. Downshift to a gear where the truck slowly gains speed. Once you get toward the top end of that gear, near the speed limit, or if you are not comfortable, gently apply the brakes to slow you down. (I usually use a 10 MPH range) Release the brakes, and repeat until you are off that hill. This speads the load of braking so you won't overheat your brakes. Don't be too worried if you are traveling slower than traffic, just turn on your 4-ways. You will probably be at a similar speed of some trucks anyway. Don't be afraid to get behind or in between them- they are pro's and do it all day every day. If you are going to continually haul heavy loads (especially on hills) , this is where an exhaust brake can come in handy. As far as braking goes, leave more than enough room to allow you to stop AKA do not tailgate. Using the above method will allow you to make those stops much quicker.

Jason

I believe Tow/Haul does more. It changes shift points and locks torque converter tighter in each gear. You still have use of all gears. Anyway that's how Ford works. I use Tow/Haul whenever I'm pulling my 5,000 pound boat or 11,000 pound trailer.

I have seen a lot of the crew cabs out there and many have the short bed. This does not have any thing to do with your tow/haul selection on the Allison, you are receiving adequate information there. But if you have the short bed

6.6', your hitch should be a slider.

This chart will give you an idea about what is and what is not recommended for your truck. You don't want to be sticking the corner of your 5er through the back window.

Tow/Haul Mode: ON - whenever towing or hauling. (Duh!)

More important that increasing the RPM shift points, T/H Mode forces the torque converter to "stay" locked.

If you haven't installed the 5th-gear lockout, you probably should. I was going to have it installed on my '02 8.1 Big Block but, with my little trailer, it's not necessary.

Later model Allison-equipped pickups have this lockout function already installed. It was an extra-cost retrofit that was available after my truck was a couple years old.

In the 5-speed Allison, 4 & 5 are both overdrives. Locking-out 5 would help in your case.

You might also look into an exhaust brake.

Good luck and have fun!

Thanks to all who have replied so far. We do have the long bed crew cab so no worries about the window/cab breakage, and our truck is an '03 so we do have the fifth gear lock out if that is what the overdrive lock out means. We have pulled the fiver once and used the tow haul mode 'cause we were scared not to! LOL. Would an exhaust brake negate our warranty? Thanks for tips on slowing down on steep grades. I have always admired the "knights of the road". I did notice that when tow haul mode is on, the truck automatically down shifts and slows down. I have had to accelerate in order to move downhill (without trailer). I have never before had a vehicle that would actually slow down on a hill!!! I think it will be different with a big load behind us. ~[8-) When towing up hill should I just keep it in tow haul or take out of tow haul and go to third gear? Or what? Thanks again. I feel the need for all the information I can get.-Debbie

Marv, if your Chevy has the Allison transmission and Duramax Diesel and all you think the tow/haul mode does is "moves up the shift points," you need to read the manual again.

Ron

It is my understanding that the Allison 5 speed automatic transmission only had one overdrive and that was 5th gear. Fourth gear was 1:1 in my '01 Duramax as well as in my new '06 Duramax 6 speed Allison which does have two overdrives (5th & 6th).

Ron

I can tell you what my experience has been towing a 35' triple slide 5th wheel with a dry weight of 12,500 pounds using an '01 Chevy 3500 Crew Cab long bed Duramax Diesel with a 5 speed Allison automatic transmission. We spent three of the last four summers in WY and MT, the other summer we went to OR and traveled down the coast from Astoria, OR to Crescent City, CA and them back home to OK

I use the tow/haul mode, overdrive and most of the time I also use cruise control. In the '01 you could NOT lock out OD and I found there was no need to anyway. On up hill grades of 6% and 7% the transmission would downshift when it needed to, sometimes to 3rd gear, and truck right on up the road. I never saw the transmission temperature rise much above the normal operating temp. The engine temperature rose above normal on two occassions, both times was on hot days (95+) and long grades (12 miles or more), turning off the a/c cured the problem both times (turn a/c off and put it on re-circulate and you won't notice the difference for a while). In the mountains I pay attention to the speed limit signs for trucks. If they tell trucks to slow down to 45 before cresting a pass, that is what I do. On the downhill I use the transmission's tow/haul magic to keep my speed down. That is I brake briefly, if I gain speed after braking without applying accelerator the Allison will downshift. I have had the transmission down shift one gear at a time as far down as 2nd gear and the rpm go up over

4,500. Makes a lot of noise, but is well within spec (red line is 4,800 rpm for deceleration). The transmission seems to do a good job down to 30-35 mph, but I need to brake for curves with recommended speeds slower than that. On occasions I have also used the brakes briefly from time to time on long down hill runs to assist the transmission.

In early January I traded in the '01 on an '06 Duramax HO with 6 speed Allison automatic. It has a a few features that the '01 didn't have and I am not sure when some of the changes were made. One of the differences is that when towing using the tow/haul mode and cruise control, the transmission will downshift on down hill grades if you gain to much speed. I have only experienced this once so far. When the speed increased to 6-7 mph above where I had it set, the transmission downshifted twice within a short time to slow me back down to the set speed. It was really kind of neat for the truck to handle the whole thing and I never had to touch the brakes. Also. on the '06 I can select the highest gear to be used (from 1 to 6), but I have not used that feature yet.

With your 5th wheel weighing only 11,000 pounds loaded, you won't have any problems at all in the mountains. Just remember to take your time going down hill and let the transmission do most/all of the breaking.

Ron

You are correct, Ron.

You're welcome, Debbie!

Congratulations on your new rig. You're gonna LOVE it.

Since you've had The Monster Truck for a while, you are by now USED to the expen$e of operating it. The upgrade from hybrid(?) to the fifthwheel won't be THAT bad of a "hit".

For one season after my mom died, my stepdad allowed me to USE their fulltiming fiver during that local camping season if, during that time, I made a good effort to SELL the FW. I did. It didn't. ('nuther story)

They had, and I used, their Ford F250. It was equipped with the 351cid (5.7L) V8 gasser with 4:10 gears. It was so seriously overloaded by their last rig that it wasn't even CLOSE to "funny". ('nuther story)

A true four-door cab with the LONG box - and a dually and Duramax. It doesn't get any better than that. Your fifthwheel selection criteria was probably unrestricted.

When I first purchased my Silverado I considered it likely that, during the life of the pickup, I would upgrade my trailer. Now I'm not so sure: We have our little entry-level TT *just* the way we like it. ...and it's paid for, finally. Given that, I have WAAAAY more truck than I need. Oh, well. It's nice to have too much rather than not enough.

That would be it. If I DO upgrade MY camper, I'll have to have that installed on my Allison. They quoted me >$300 a year ago to do it. As it is, I usually tow in "Drive" as recommended in the owner's manual. My only selection for overdrive lockout is to pull the selector lever into "3" which is direct drive, locking-out the next (preferable)lower, 4th-gear overdrive. Fortuantely, I haven't had to do that more than a couple of times as the already dismal MPG (~8) takes a big hit.

Hehehe! A little RESPECT (fear) for driving conditions is NOT a bad thing. Tow/Haul is a good thing that was WAAAAAY overdue on the towing scene. The latest incarnation of the world's second-ugliest truck has a FACTORY trailer braking system! Wotta concept! What will they think of next? More cup holders? I'm waiting for a factory dock for my iPod. (no joke)

Probably not.

According to the experts at Trailer Life that I've read over the years, unless the aftermarket device or system can be proven to be the CAUSE of the failure of the covered device or system, the latter is STILL covered by the warranty.

With the Allison tranny, unless you LIVE in a mountainous area or plan to tow frequently in that environment, I'd wait to have done my first (or third) Thompson canyon descent from Estes Park/Rocky Mtn NP to see if an exhaust braking system would be worth the cost. They're expensive. (Well over $kUS?)

The Allison alone would be enough to make me a Chevy man. If I were to ever downside to a small block engine, I'd be inclined to SPECIAL ORDER the pickup with the Allison. Unless things have changed, the killer tranny is a "required option" (huh?) on Silverados equipped with the diesel engine or, like my pickup, the Big Block Vortec 8100. That's a whopping 496cid, ladies and germs. :)

Allison only became a "household" word after Chevy began putting them into the Silverado. The Allison division of General Motors has been around for YEARS making transmissions for transit buses, big rigs and military tanks!

In that case, turn OFF Tow/Haul or slip the tranny into the next higher "gear" if it's not there already. A slight "tap" in the gas pedal will tell the computer that it can tell the Allison to let you go faster without using more fuel. (It releases the locked torque converter if NOT in Tow/Haul, etc.) Did you know that there is NO throttle cable running from the gas pedal to the engine? It's all computer! "Fly by wire"! That's how the Allison and the engine work so well together. It's also why a stupid, $5 blown fuse may some day have me on the side of the road. What price progress?

You paid - and are PAYING - for it, my dear. Enjoy it! :)

Isn't it always?

Tow/Haul ALWAYS when hitched-up. The only time you'd consider turning it OFF would be if descending a hill and would otherwise have to actually accelerate to maintain a desired speed. The would cause the torque converter to unlock (slip) which uses less engine braking - it "coasts" better.

It would not hurt the truck (or "use up" anything) to keep it in Tow/Haul even when driving solo, but I believe fuel economy and drivability might be diminished in that case.

Also, if you discover that you've inadvertently left Tow/Haul OFF after refueling (for example) and immediately traversed rolling terrain where the transmission would "hunt" ('nuther topic), before there was any harm, you would have noticed that the tranny was hunting with the help of the tachometer and your hearing - and would then turn Tow/Haul ON and maybe even lock-out fifth gear.

If you haven't RTFM (read the manual) by now, you should. You should also subscribe to Trailer Life magazine and read it.

Have fun with your new rig. What are you going to do with ALL THAT SPACE?!??

That, too, is missing in my '02. That would be nice.

Which, of course, disengages the Cruise Control. :(

I suspect that lowering the speed setting of the Cruise Control does NOT make that happen on my truck. Does it do so on your new one?

Does the shift lever indicator display ALL positions/"gears"? I'm gonna have to head off to the Silverado site.

Jim Redelfs wrote: Had to get it shorter so it would fit, I only have the short bed truck! ;-)

A story about the crew cab long bed Silverado. Camping in the NW corner of MS. At a family reunion, several of us stole our brotherinlaw's truck. Driving it in the SP winding roads, could not keep it on the road because it was so long. I cannot understand why any one would want a truck that takes that much room to turn around and try to tow a camper with. ;-(

That's what it did in my van.

Now I have the 8.1 & HD Chevy trans. in my '04 Avalanche 2500. The manual says to use just when the combined wgt is at least 75% of GCWR. In my case I'm at about 90% but don't use the Tow/Haul much. Just drive in 3rd unless it's a nice level stretch when it will stay in OD w/o any "searching." I'll check again on the OD next time I tow; maybe I should just use it all the time?

Marv

Those aren't my words. I bought an extended-cab with the LONG box off the dealer's lot. Had I special-ordered the pickup, as had been planned, I would probably have ordered the 6-1/2-foot (short) box.

I am GLAD I have the LONG box and would order/buy it again.

The 8-foot box is just enough more room, and the ride is just enough improved, that the comparatively SMALL length increase to an already-ridiculously-LONG vehicle is certainly worth it, if not negligible. That I have the option to remove the cab-high fiberglass topper and haul many fifthwheel trailers - without having to worry about a sliding hitch - is an added value of the long box. I have a back seat for grandkids. Since I would rarely if ever ride back there, I got the extended cab but NOT the "true" four-door "crew cab". The little rugrats and occasional old lady can WAIT for me to open a door to let them out. :)

Because a LONGER wheel-based tow vehicle offers the most control and comfort. There is a price for everything. Needing a small parking lot in which to turn around in one of these LONG pickups is the "price" we pay for the improved driving/towing manners.

A LONGER wheelbase is BETTER for towing and probably less bumpy when solo.

A SHORTER wheelbase is BETTER for driving in an urban environment and when jockeying-around a trailer in a small campground. Since I can't have BOTH, I'll take the LONGER wheelbase.

As for urban driving, I take it regularly into an urban environment with no problem, for whatever that's worth. It's just as hard to find a parking spot for a Corolla as with my pickup, though.

I learned something special about my pickup when it was almost new when pulling our little Skampercamper *UP* a National Forest access road to the end of the road: A ridiculously HIGH ground clearance disappears QUICKLY when going off road.

Before I accidentally tore out the Allison, I went back to camp. We spent a fabulous, star-filled, QUIET night all by ourselves. The next morning we carefully towed everything back down the mountain. No damage.

My pickup is 20-inches longer overall than a Ford Expedition (the now-discontinued, short-lived version of the Suburban on the SuperDuty chassis) and a full two-FEET longer than a Suburban. I back it into my UNCHANGED garage - in a common, spec-grade split entry home with the two-car garage underneath - with a nice jackpost in the middle. I originally cussed the jackpost but now use it as a guide when berthing the SS GhettoCruiser II.

The darned thing "stickered" >$2k more than my first, new house! I love it.

I'm going to pipe in here on the exhaust brake subject. I think as a former long haul driver who has been over just about every major pass some more than I would like to remember, both with and with out engine brakes, I am qualified to comment lol.

Exhaust brakes are sweet, they take a lot of the white knuckle out of driving a diesel down a steep grade. Because diesels do not have a "throttle" they produce very little vacuum, and vacuum is what allows a gasoline engine to produce braking action. The best engine brake is a Jacobs, Jake for short. When you hear a big rig "blowing raspberries" thats a jake brake in action, it disables the intake valve so a vacumm is created in the cylinder on the intake stroke. The next style is an "exhaust" brake, this places a restriction in the exhaust when the "foot feed pedal" or in laymans terms, the gas pedal is released. Because it restricts the exhaust the engine has to work harder to push the exhaust out of the cylinder, providing braking action for the vehicle. Isuzu and Chevy Tiltmasters with the Isuzu Diesel use exhaust brakes, they work great, that and the fuel mileage is why when I need to rent a truck thats all I rent. Why o why hasn't chevy/gmc put them on the light duty is beyond me.

But there is a caveat emptor to engine brakes. People tend to put to much blind faith in them. Anything man can manufacture can fail so one needs to still take it slow and easy down a grade, other wise if it were to fail, you might very likely toast the brakes before getting stopped. DOT puts runaway ramps on most all major grades, but they really get upset if they find the reason you had to use it was anything other than a mechanical failure. Also if you forget to turn the exhaust brake off, it can cause the engine to overheat idling.. In medium to heavy traffic they take a lot of strain off the brake system.

Also every truck stop, and most RV shops carry two books, Mountain Directory East and Mountain Directory West these two books along with ether a truckstop guide or exit guide should be in every one rig.

Whitelightning

Other than those who drive exclusively in a crowded metro area, I cannot understand why anyone would buy a short bed. You pay X dollars for a truck, but only get a half of one. My son recently bought a Dodge Dakota PU with 5 ft bed. ??? What the hell good is that?

Tom, who wouldn't buy anything short of a full pickup.

OK! That will fly. I was under the belief that some one bought a crew cab, the true four door truck with the long bed. That is limo length, so long that you have to backup to see if you have stopped yet. :-(

I also found out that the grandkids grow up so fast that they never have time to go camping any more. They are to busy with taking care of their kids. And I hate getting beat on those hand held electronic games by those little piss ants great grand kids. ;-)