Starter problem???

bad connection either at the battery, starter, or engine block ground

Where would I find the engine block ground???

follw the cable that hooks to the negative battery terminal

at the end is where it hooks to the block, also called 'engine block ground'

oh, and the problem might simply be a battery that has died

To test the engine block ground, can I connect a set of jumper cables from the negative battery terminal to the truck frame??

speedometer

Yes... That is the way I would do it. You can leave the original negative battery cable in place, as you will now be bypassing the possibly bad connection. If it now starts, you have found the problem.

However, most of the time, I have found the problem is due to a worn out battery that will no longer hold a charge. Have you tried jump starting the car with a known good battery and a GOOD set of jumper cables? Most of the time, a car battery will not last beyond 3 to 5 years, on average. The battery can be partially discharged, still have enough juice to power up the fuel pump and such, but not put out enough amps to crank the engine over.

Rule of thumb. Start with the simplest things first, then go on to trouble shooting connections. Of course, if your battery is good, then TranSurgeon is right and I would start looking at connections. If the battery is newer but still discharged, then also look at the alternator to see why it is discharged. SF

What kind of symptoms would I have if the starter relay has gone bad? and is there a way to test it?

Jimmy

he needs to take a no-load voltage reading of the battery, after it has been on a charger overnight

that will tell if the battery is good or not or better yet....just replace it, and see how it cranks

If the relay is bad it most likely would not do anything.

Have you cleaned your battery terminals? Dirty terminals can cause relay chatter. Next to check the battery. As someone said try a voltmeter. If you have battery caps a hydrometer is even better. If you have the voltmeter measure the voltage at the battery while trying to start. If it stays about 12 volts you have a bad connection. If it drops way down the battery is discharged or bad

Just to let everyone know, seems my problem was simply a run down battery. I took it out and charged it and now the truck starts great. I'm not quite sure why I wasn't able to jump start the truck though...any thoughts on what would inhibit jumping but not charging?

Thanks to everyone for the help. Jimmy

Jimmy, A really dead battery can suck more juice than is available via jumpers, depending on how good or cheap the jumpers are. That leaves nothing left, for the starter. Just leave the jumpers hooked up for five or ten minutes, first. THEN try to start it, and you will probably succeed, if a dead battery was the only problem.

Ok, one more question - for curiosity sake! When getting instruction on how to jump start a vehicle battery, it always includes connecting the negative jumper cable on the DOA to the engine block or vehicle chassis and not to the negative battery terminal - why? If the negative battery cable connects to the engine block, wouldn't connecting the jumper cables to the negative terminal be the same as connecting to the engine block or chassis? As you can tell, I really don't understand how a negaive ground electrical system works, but please don't hold that against me.

Jimmy

I have a pair of Eveready jumpers, their heaviest gauge etc. Even with these, I can't start a completely dead battery. Your better off putting the donor batt in the truck to see if it will run.

GMC Gremlin

Your first bet is to attach to the engine block or frame. If that doesn't supply enough juice, you can attach to the battery. The reason you don't

*want* to attach to the battery is because they leak Hydrogen and it's kind of a nasty gas that esplodes and stuff.. When the cable sparks on the block it's further away from the battery then if you attach to the battery (duh). So there you go... Personally I go from post to post to post to post and feel this is a left over from when most batteries were "care type" when you needed to add distilled water and such to keep them going. But I guess it's better to be safe than sorry.....

GMC Gremlin

Two reasons: First of all the negative of the starter is on the engine. By connecting to the block you eliminate the wire to the battery. Probably most important it is a way to avoid having a spark at the battery. There is always a possibility, however slim, of a concentration of hydrogen gas nearby. The instructions are to make the negative connection to the engine of the dead battery vehicle last and to break it there.

Jimmy, Depending on the make and model, there might be several reasons, but I can give two, for about any vehicle. Safety: if you ground to the chassis, there is less chance of a spark making hydrogen go boom (batteries produce hydrogen, and it explodes at a very wide range of percentages). Sure, this will not destroy the vehicle, but it *can* blow the top off a battery, and spray you with battery acid. Nobody ever puts on goggles, to jump-start a dead one; at least connect (-) to chassis ground, AFTER you connect the (+) cable ends. Cranking power: the starter gets electrical ground from the engine/chassis, so you eliminate a poor ground cable (if present) from robbing power from the starter - chassis ground just lets the starter work better. It may not make much difference on a healthy vehicle, but you want everything possible working *for* you, when you need the jumpers. We use negative ground for USA cars because positive voltage corrodes things faster. Better to replace the (+) cable more often, than to rust out the whole vehicle instead. Some European cars came with positive grounds, and anything that can rust, will, in record time. Boats often use a "sacrificial anode" made of some metal that corrodes faster (in water) than the engine/running gear, to minimize corrosion on the boat. Any outboard motor shop can show you one. It works by keeping the boat negatively charged (compared to the highly reactive anode metal) without using any electrical power from the boat.

Do what Trans Surgeon suggested More than likely the problem will return clean the battery cable at the block or probably the intake which is more than likely aluminum. corossion will build up there due to GM's wonderful engineering putting dissimilar metals in the electrical path Make sure you clean the bolt, surface where the cable comes into contact and cable end. I just went through this with my 1500 V-6 Speedo and gauges were jumping all over the place Sometimes would start sometimes not rain and or high humidity makes the situation worse

Steve