Warning Chevy S-10 Owners

Did you cross-post this to all the automotive groups?

****************************************** I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. ~ Thomas Jefferson ~

If we had a better picture we could probably tell what caused it. My guess: lots of rust and miles and/or incorrect install of the new joint.

Looks like a butt load of rust due to improper maintenance to me.

Sounds like you intend to get a lawsuit going for some income. From my point, GM aren't responsible for poor maintainence by hacks who wield a cutting torch, or from general lack of maintainence. if someone had, at the very least, greased the lower joints or ever looked down there at the rust this wouldn't have happened. This is the same design GM, Ford and a ton of other auto manufacturers use on their cars and trucks, it's a proven design.

-- David Algie

You're preachin' to the choir there bro. Reply to the original poster.

A butt load of rust....sounds painfull! :0

I guess I didn't explain a few things on the web page that I'll explain here and up date the page asap. First of all the truck was going in 'reverse' when this happened at a very slow speed. The damage to the control arm (lower A-frame) was done from the ripping of the ball joint out of its socket (so to speak) the A-frame dug into the pavement but was not dragged down the road. The truck came to an immediate stop after the break. Also just a year ago the front end was aliened. If the ball joints where that bad the alignment would not have been made or stayed in alignment for that long. Also there was NO warning of this about to happen. No noise, no pulling to one side or the other NOTHING!! The break took place across the holes for the bolts and or rivets on the A-frame. Yes there is rust, however this vehicle has no more rust that I can see than any other S-10 I've looked at in the last three weeks....and I've looked at many of them to check this out. The ball joints where replaced by the owner before me. I got the truck in

1998. Like I said a year ago it was out of alignment and needed an idler arm before the alignment could be done to it. The ball joints where tested (how I don't know) but all seemed ok, they changed the idler arm and did the alignment. All was ok. And the truck has been in alignment for a year now. As far as the cutting torch, I will know that you can remove a rivet without leaving any cutting marks on the steel. I have worked as a pipe welder for fifteen years at a ship yard. However it does take a good torch-man to accomplish this. I was saying that there are no signs of one being used. No discoloring of the steel or any cut marks or any sign of a torch being used. I was saying that "if" one was used it could explain the metal fatigue. I understand that the proper way to remove them is with an air chisel. However they where removed the break took place across the holes where the bolts go. There is VERY little steel at that part of the A-frame. This has to be a weak point...look at one and see. Remove the ball joint and you will see that the A-frame has about 3/4 of an inch of steel then a hole for a bolt, then about another 1/2 inch of steel, then a large hole for the ball joint to go though, then another 1/2 inch of steel, and the other hole for the next bolt, then another 3/4 inch of steel. Not much support. And this is where the break took place at. Looks to be a piss poor design if you ask me! That's one hell of allot of weight to hold up. Also silver metal was showing at the break where it sheared off! The rust is surface rust and it does not go deep into the metal.

I also will add that this truck has NEVER been mistreated. It is a four wheel drive truck. But has hardly ever been off road. And when it was it was only on hard ground on farm land...not going though mud, rocks or any kind of abuse. I've taken very good care of this truck. I'm I looking for a lawsuit...NO! But if this has happened before (God knows it could have or has)... it surely can happen again to someone. I have shown this to five mechanics and all are in disbelief that this happened. But all agree there is not much steel on the A-frame at this point where the break took place and that rust does not seem to be the cause of it. All I'm trying to do is bring this to any S-10 owner attention. If you have one of these trucks you better have it checked out! And even then you won't know for sure if this can happen to you!!!

Thank you, the "moron" that drives the speed limit in a truck that she believes is safe.

That last post was from me...sorry it says it was from CaptainRick....forgot to change the name. Rosie Baker

Just out of curiousity:..... How many miles on this truck? I wonder if the bolts were a little loose causing fatigue where the ball joint bolts up? If so you should be able to see where the joint moved around it the hole before it came apart. If they were just a little loose you would probably not notice it when looking at the front end. You mention farm roads, if they are washboards they will beat the hell out of anything in a hurry. Did you get the other lower controll arm replaced just in case?

CaptainRick....forgot

102,000 miles on it. Lots I know. The farm roads are all paved in this part of Kentucky. And off road was on flat farm land, I'm telling you this truck was not abused. Many are blaming dry ball joints for the failure. But I'm telling you it was the A-frame that failed. It sheared off across the holes for the bolts. The last front end lube was a year ago...maybe to long ago? Not really sure. I admit they do look dry. But how many other S-10's are like this on our roads. Maybe I am to blame for the neglect of the ball joints, that I thought where just fine and greased? The truck has not as yet been fixed.

102K not *that* many miles. If you dont grease the joints, its the joint that fails, not the controll arm. Im betting the joint was a little loose at the bolts and it fatigued the arm. A good mechanic should be able to see this with close inspection. Something else was wrong I'm sure because that kind a failure is not common. It is possible that the arm was defective in some way but its not very likely.

No the last grease job was not 100,000 miles ago, it was just about a year ago. In that years time maybe 12,000 miles where put on the truck. Maybe they "didn't" grease this joint. I just don't know. If you take the ball joint off of the control arm and look at the control arm end where the ball joint goes you will see that there is not very much metal there. With the holes for the bolts and the big hole for the ball joint. It makes for a very weak place in the control arm ...if you ask me anyway. Maybe I'm wrong? But you have the side of the controll arm about

3/4 of an inch of steel then a hole for a bolt, then about a 1/2 inch of steel, then the large hole for the ball joint, then another 1/2 inch of steel, then another hole for the bolt, then another 3/4 inch of steel. And thats it. Sounds weak to me! And to see this break across them sure seems to show that it is weak there.

All I'm trying to let people know is that this happened! And it CAN happen again. Be it neglect, bad design, bad ball joints, no grease in joint, or an act of God...IT HAPPENED ! When I get this taken apart I'll take some more close up pictures of it that hopefully will show better detail of what may have happened here. And I'm not saying that it was not from neglect! As far as I know a grease job should last a year!? As long as it's not been though high water or off road driven hard. And this truck was not. All I can say is "Have your S-10 checked!"

I didnt mean 100K on the lube job, I ment the truck :) Its not ALOT of miles.....

I had a 60 falcon do this to me on I-10 just outside of Baton Rouge. The spark show was awesome. Car barely pulled. I just eased it over to the side of the road. Scary, but unless you're in a tight corner and run it off the road, it's less dangerous than a rear tire flat. Your lucky, I had to replace tire and rim, and weld flatbar over the lost metal on the frame. With the Falcon, it was a defective ball joint (lower control arm only had 1200 miles on it). Yours, OTOH, looks like the bolts weren't tightened correctly, leading to fatigue and stress cracks. Hard to tell without a closer look, but I'm basing my guess on never having seen or heard of this on any Chevy S-10.

I saw this same string in alt.autos.4x4.Chevy-trucks. lots of posting on there about this to. I won't post here posted on the other newsgroup.

. (original post, start of thread.....read the whole thread if you like..or talk to an experienced front end tech) Warning Chevy S-10 Owners Group: alt.trucks.chevy Date: Sat, Sep 13, 2003, 9:31am (CDT+1) From: snipped-for-privacy@fuse.net (Rosie=A0Baker) If you own a Chevy S-10 you need to see this page! Your life may depend on it!

. Rosie dear,

Installer error! + Improper suspension diagnosis!

=3D no lawsuit.

I know......I know........you said you weren't after taking anyone to court. Then you should maybe consider revamping your page before YOU get sued for slander. And quit listening to those yard-bird mechanics that dropped their jaws in disbelief. Maybe instead of setting out an "all points" bulletin on S10 ball joint failures............ you should post the name of the person who changed the balljoints and assumed all future liabilities in the process. You're mighty quick to blame GM for an area of the vehical that has knowingly been "modified from OEM". I'm not sure what pissed me off the most about this thread, the fact that you're a welder and therefore are familiar with all aspects of metal fatigue........the fact that you pointedly assume GM is at fault......the fact that you weren't open minded enough to accumulate an indepth history of failure before mouthing off about it and posting to the world in a manner that is blatant liable........or the fact that you didn't even bother to subscribe to the possibility that you're frequenting substandard repair faciilities or that the actual replacement "proceedure" was what caused the failure.

Crawl your arse under a few thousand S10 trucks and take note of what you see as far as failures go before you get you're panties in an uproar next time.

any whoooo..... good luck with the case your not trying to build.

Scribb Abel

The smartest man I ever met............. Never said a word.

I agree with the group im a tech at a chevy dealership and have replaced this type of balljoint many times but never seen one with this much rust on it ?you may get some followers on this but real auto head will see the rust first and give you your answer to your claim

Yes I may have jumped the gun so to speak on the cause of this. And I feel you are right after hearing others opinions about it. I will change the web page so it doesn't sound like I'm coming down on Chevy so much. BUT! you must admit there is not much steel at that point on the control arm where this broke off at. UNKNOWING ball joint neglect does seem to be the cause (or more likely the cause anyway) But I hope I can get S-10 owners to understand the danger here is VERY real. I had no idea such a thing could happen. "did you?" maybe you did? But just think about how many S-10s are out there in the same shape as this one was. And others say the same design is on other vehicles also. Of all the people that have posted here. Yours hit home the most. Thank You. I'll start work on the web page as I close this thread.

Warning Chevy S-10 Owners

Group: alt.trucks.chevy Date: Sat, Sep 13, 2003, 9:31am (CDT+1) From: snipped-for-privacy@fuse.net (Rosie Baker)

If you own a Chevy S-10 you need to see this page! Your life may depend on it!

. Rosie dear,

Installer error! + Improper suspension diagnosis!

= no lawsuit.

I know......I know........you said you weren't after taking anyone to court. Then you should maybe consider revamping your page before YOU get sued for slander. And quit listening to those yard-bird mechanics that dropped their jaws in disbelief. Maybe instead of setting out an "all points" bulletin on S10 ball joint failures............ you should post the name of the person who changed the balljoints and assumed all future liabilities in the process. You're mighty quick to blame GM for an area of the vehical that has knowingly been "modified from OEM". I'm not sure what pissed me off the most about this thread, the fact that you're a welder and therefore are familiar with all aspects of metal fatigue........the fact that you pointedly assume GM is at fault......the fact that you weren't open minded enough to accumulate an indepth history of failure before mouthing off about it and posting to the world in a manner that is blatant liable........or the fact that you didn't even bother to subscribe to the possibility that you're frequenting substandard repair faciilities or that the actual replacement "proceedure" was what caused the failure.

Crawl your arse under a few thousand S10 trucks and take note of what you see as far as failures go before you get you're panties in an uproar next time.

any whoooo..... good luck with the case your not trying to build.

Scribb Abel

The smartest man I ever met............. Never said a word.

Take a look at any of the Japanese offerings and you will find much less metal, especially on tie rods.