Will not start anymore - starter fail?

The alternator recharges the battery and keeps the battery charged.

Like a cellphone, the battery will slowly drain if not recharged. You could then recharge it with an automotive battery charger (like you do with your cellphone), then everything would run good again. Then it would slowly drain again.

Or you could fix the alternator problem and it would keep itself charged.

I forgot to mention that I put in a good known battery into the truck. One that I just had tested and charged on one of those battery machines at the store.

Guess should make that a bit clearer. After I thought it was a bad battery, I disconnected the batter while engine was running and the engine kept running fine. It is then I put in the known goood battery. I then turned off the vehicle and tried to restart again. It was the same result. Bright head lamps and slow to crank over, but even slower this time. It cranked over one more time after that. I turned the ignition swtich and "click" and nothing for a moment then it cranked.

This discussion would be the reason I suspect the starter:

NOT a good thing to do, You probably fried a few things doing it.

It is then I put in the known goood battery.

Not a surprise. You will probably be needing a new alternator, battery, and maybe a new ECM as well.

I would have to disagree on you with that, but thanks for the input

In the future, you might want to use a multimeter for testing instead. To learn to use a multimeter, search google.com for the words...

How to use a multimeter on a car

Here is the link to that search if it works...

A meter is almost worthless without some diagrams of the electrical system to trace where you need to go.

Thanks for that input though.

You can get factory complete electrical diagrams as part of the factory service manual set of books (4 books to set many times). Order from dealer or helminc.com

These books will also have complete troubleshooting instructions for the electrical system.

As to the charging system...

A fully charged battery would read 12.65 volts or higher. Use DC volts 20 on a multimeter.

The battery should read 12 something volts with just the ignition on (not started).

Then start it and it should then read 13/14 volts at the battery. This is the alternator kicking in and charging the battery.

Disagree about what? On that vehicle the voltage regulation is controlled inside the ECM. It does not like having the sense line disconnected (battery voltage is monitored directly off the pos lead at the main relay center). When that is disconnected the ECM assumes the battery is low and will crank up the volts and amperage to compensate for it. This has an effect of blowing out the diodes and the internal controls that the ECM uses.

The result is a short inside the alternator that will drop battery voltage REAL fast. Cure is to actually TEST the alternator with a good meter and check for any A/C on the outputs.

To do that you first check battery voltage with the engine off and battery disconnected. You should see about 12-12.5 volts if it's fully charged. Now connect it up and start the engine. Put the meter across the terminals with it set to DC 20 volts. With the engine running you should see voltage between 13-14 volts (much higher and the battery will have a shorter life) If it's less the alternator is not working very well or has problems. To check for A/C output you simply switch the meter to A/C at the same voltage or higher. You shouldn't see any A/C at the battery. If you do there is a bad diode or more in the alternator.

works...

If you think a meter is worthless without a wiring diagram you might want to stop working on vehicles. There are a myriad of tests that you can do with a simple meter without even looking in a service manual.

Battery condition, Parasitic draw, Battery cable condition, Ground path faults, Voltage drop to whatever item you're working on, amperage draw of an item, Continuity of wires/fuses/bulbs, And these are just the tip of the iceberg.

Just saying the ability to follow the path of a circuit via a diagram would make it much better than funbling around poking for voltages and currents.

Yes yes I see what you mean. The known "good" battery has been drained of power. More testing I guess needs to be done.

I will have to get the batteries charged and do some more poking around to see why they are getting drained.

Thanks again all of you for the input so far.

Come to think about it I read this article about alternators and it mentions the same thing that happened to me:

" Each of the three phases has its own windings in the alternator and each of the windings has its own pair of diodes. Each of these windings and/or diodes can fail, one set at a time. If this happens the alternator can still charge the battery, but only with a limited current, approximately 2/3 of its original capacity if one system fails. If two systems fail, then it puts out only 1/3 of its rated capacity. What that means to you is that you can go a long time on a limping alternator. Chances are if you don't need headlights or air conditioning or other high current using accessories, you would never know that the alternator was in the process of failing! The time you will find out is when it is 10 below zero and you wear down the battery by cranking the starter, then put the fan on high for heat, and then drive in the dark."

This started about the same time I put a refrigerant charge into the A/ C and started using it.

A battery which is being recharged will remain at the same voltage pretty much day to day.

With everything off, check battery with voltmeter in morning...

Yesterday 12.65 volts Today 12.65 volts Tomorrow 12.65 volts Day after tomorrow 12.65 volts Etc.

However a battery which is not being recharged will drain and get lower and lower. Maybe if the alternator is partially working...

Yesterday 12.65 volts Today 12.35 volts Tomorrow 12.05 volts Day after tomorrow 11.75 volts Etc.

I am still wondering what it is. I let the battery charge for a while and just to see, tried to start it. Still not a click from the starter.

I got it traced down to the starting part.

Too dark to see right now and can't find my flashlight.

It's either the starter, the purple wire which runs from the S terminal of the starter to the inititon switch, or the inigtion switch itself.