1998 Grand Caravan

What you are failing to grasp here is that a load test was done, even though all of the engineers said it was useless. Your statement above is exactly why I said a load test was needed; it is definitive proof of where the problem lies. If you go back and read what I've said on that thread, I didn't claim to know exactly where the problem was, only that a load test was essential in finding it.

They claims, as well as yours, to the contrary are proven wrong by the fact that a load test was in fact done. The claim that 629A (or whatever amperage was claimed) was found means nothing until a manufacturers CCA rating for the battery is posted, and I haven't seen anyone post that as a "fact" yet.

The fact that the wiring is determined to be the center of this problem means that one group of engineers is wrong, either its you internet experts, or the ones in the Chrysler engineering and design studios. As I said before, and especially in light of your outrageous claims (helium has no weight?) I'll go with the Chrysler guys as more reliable.

Reply to
Max Dodge
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Ah, yes, thanks for reminding me why I don't believe the stuff you wrote below.

Reply to
Budd Cochran

(Sarcasm mode at full throttle, full boost and full NOX)

Oh, I keep forgetting, only an "engineer" like yourself ( ROFLMBO!!!) can deliberately confuse a topic.

(sarcasm mode disengaged)

Reply to
Budd Cochran

Budd, you don't have to believe Bill, just Google "Ohms law" or pick up any basic physics or electrical book. I searched for "Budd's law" and came up empty. :-)

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

Ha, ha, ha... Ohm's law is about as simple as it gets. Only you could be confused about E=IR.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

Is this your coded way of saying you were wrong.

Reply to
TBone

Hi Matt...

Wonder if someone could if they didn't know the abbreviations... so just in case...

E = voltage (in volts) I = current (in amps) R = resistance (in ohms)

Take care.

Ken

Reply to
Ken Weitzel

LOL, sorry Maxi but you are still wrong. A simple voltage test on the battery while the inverter was plugged in was all that was needed. You really do flip flop more than Kerry. First it was a bad battery, then it wasn't but the load test was necessarry, then back to the battery was bad again. Make up your mind because either way, you are still wrong. The battery was not bad and a load test was not necessary.

I must say that it funny to watch you twist and squirm rather than just admit to your error or just shut the hell up. Since it is a mini-van with a factory battery, do you really think it is going to be anything over 700 CCA and I see you are still flip-flopping. In the first paragraph you claim that the load test confirming the battery to be ok proves you right and now you have managed to flip flop back to the battery possibly being bad again. If you actually new what a voltage drop was you could possibly have an argument that makes sense.

Once again, you can't see the forest thru the trees. What makes you think that the engineers caused this problem? Perhaps it was the cost cutters or perhaps they were not expecting such a device to be connected there or saving money took a priority like in the Dakota front ball joints or using the NV3500 in the full sized RAM even though it reduced towing capability or using undersized steering shaft joints that tend to fail prematurely or putting the damn fuel filter in the tank as part of the pump. Yea Max, cost savings is never placed over full reliability or longevity.

Reply to
TBone

Not necessary and it has no way to know what is plugged into it.

And you have proof of this where???

And you base this on what? We are talking about a factory battery here and a DC at that.

No, it indicates a high drop in the wiring and a small drop from the battery.

And would not be able to start the car and like magic, it still does, even after the load test. I guess that's strike 5.

Of course you are in agreement. You two are about the only ones that agree with each other on most issues because like this one, you are W R O N G ! ! !

Reply to
TBone

No thanks, I still have my electrical engineering handbook.

Reply to
Budd Cochran

Perhaps you should take the time to comprehend what it is telling you.

Reply to
TBone

If only you knew how to read it. I'm quite sure it has Ohm's law spelled out correctly.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

And yet you claim to not denigrate a person's education.

You are a lying hypocrite!

I've had enough of you.

Reply to
Budd Cochran

I didn't denigrate your education. I denigrated your ability to read. You posted a blatantly incorrect physics relationship, yet you claim to have a book that in all likelihood would have the correct rendition of Ohm's law. So, this suggests that you either can't read or can't understand the book you have.

Only in your feeble mind.

It is about time. I'm surprised you could tolerate truth and correctness even this long, given your propensity for fiction.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

It is if you're just a weekend mechanic.

Why is it low at the lighter? Is it low because the battery is somehow sagging under a few amps of load, yet still can supply 100+ amps to crank the engine? (Not bloody likely!) Or is it because there's an excessive voltage drop along the supply to the lighter or perhaps a bad ground?

Easy:

1) plug in the inverter 2) measure the voltage at the battery. Call it "v1" 3) measure the voltage at the cigarette lighter. Call it "v2" 4) subtract v2 from v1. If the difference is a couple of volts, then you know that there's excessive voltage drop and THAT is why the inverter is cutting out.

I can't help it if you're just dead-nuts wrong. What's going to pop the fuse if there's an undersized wire that is dropping the voltage? Or a bad ground connection? When those faults occur, the fuse winds up carrying LESS current than it should and is LESS likely to pop.

I think that's EXACTLY the problem in this case. Or a connection has deteriorated with time. In cars that have real cigarette lighters and not just "accessory outlets," its not at all uncommon for the center pin of the outlet to become corroded due to cigarette ashes transferred from the lighter and the heat of the lighter when its in operation. Sometimes the weak connection is the lighter socket ITSELF.

Reply to
Steve

Bands are like self-energizing drum brakes. As they begin to apply, they tend to apply themselves. You can make them do so very smoothly, but what DOESN'T work well is trying to have a computer control that apply rate over a wide range. Clutches work better for that.

We already know you're easily offended. The trans sucked because the engineers weren't finished with the job when it went to production. That's UNDER-engineering, not OVER-engineering. The thing's been pretty bulletproof for 10+ years now.

Reply to
Steve

Whether bands self energize or not depends on the way they are applied in relation to rotation of the drum. Chrysler used an external band brake for the emergency brake on the back of their transmissions in the 50's and it was too efficient when driving forward and about half as efficient went going backward. This could have been done in the transmission as well.

Yes, I have the right to be offended as do you. I also have the right to be offensive, as do you. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to matter to you that you did offend me.

Funny, I still hear a lot of complaints about it even in later models.

But you've got your opinions, I've got mine.

Cya.

Budd

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Reply to
Budd Cochran

Even easier. with the side benefit of automagically identifying whether it's the wire or the ground that's to blame:

Put one of the probes (if digital) on the battery positive terminal; the other probe on the outlet center pin. Measure the voltage.

Next put one of the probes on the battery negative; the other on the outlet shell. Measure the voltage.

Both should be very very small, whichever (if any) is large is the problem.

Take care.

Ken

Reply to
Ken Weitzel

No, it is not. For as educated in this as you all claim to be, you don't seem to realize that a load tester is easily found and under $50. Thus many places have them, and loan them out. All you need to do is clamp them on and push a button, no need to move the battery anywhere.

An example seen here:

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1) See my reply to Bill regarding the very real possibility that the starter works fine while the power port may not. 2) The only way to determine if its the wiring or the battery is to load test the battery. 3) testing the ground could easily be more difficult than testing the battery.

Alright, if you plug in the inverter, and you place a load on the battery via the port, what have you done? Yup, thats right, LOAD TESTED the battery. And on top of it all, you haven't removed the battery. Jeez, that was tough.

Yup, thats why I prefer to load test the battery. Then I can see how the battery works under load without all the rest of that stuff as variables. Testing the battery determines a baseline, and allows for proper testing of the rest of the varibles.

Terrific, see above regarding the ease of each test and why a battery load test is so simple.

Reply to
Max Dodge

This would be effective if we didn't already know there was a difference in voltage via the inverter function.

You'll find nothing here, since both are grounded. Assuming the socket is losing its ground, you'll still find nothing. If you measure the resistance, THEN you'd find a bad ground.

The downside to these tests is the fact that most multimeters do not have leads long enough to complete the desired circuit. Aside from that, it would be a very effective method of checking the circuits. However, it does not determine if the voltage drop under load is due to wiring or battery.

Reply to
Max Dodge

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