2.7 Oil Sludge Problem

I can't argue with that. The air quality here gets worse every year. It's gawd awful.

I was in Winnipeg a couple of times last summer. Beautiful clean air, nice and dry; warm, not hot; big blue sky. Really nice

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Phil T
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An absolute steal at $3.09 per liter.

Sorry to hear that Ken. No wonder you moved back to some peace and quiet and away from the rat race down here.

I', aware of this. As you know, winters here are just filthy due to sand and salt on the roads.

I sense that every time I'm out there. Same in Regina and Brandon and everywhere in between. My brother lives in Dryden. He's a pilot for Bearskin. Says he'll never move back down here to southern Ontario.

If you find the oil a bit on the thick side, don't hestitate to mix a liter of 5W-20 in with your 4L of 0W-30.

Phil

Reply to
Phil T

The new extended performance products were made for you. I would use Mobil 1

0W-30 in the winter and change over to 5W-30 for the summer. Twice a year should do it for you. With conventional oil I would more likely change it out every 60 days in the winter.

Richard.

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Richard

I am looking at a 98 Chrysler Concorde with 61,000 miles. It has the

2.7L engine. I want to buy the car, and plan to take it in for inspection by a mechanic today.

How can one tell if the car has any damage because of sludge build up?

The AC was not working on the test drive also.

Should I stay away from this car?

Phil T wrote:

on it not only

unexeptable by any standard i have come to the conclusion that people that buy these vehicles dont only do any research but usually buy them for there exterior looks that chry-seller try"s so hard to attract buyers with. well with chry-seller looks that can kill and breakdown still wanna chryseller anyone? No thanks i will stick with my choice Honda/Toyota/Nissan ;)

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webmaster

Withut going to some expense of pulling oil pan and/or valve covers, probably can't tell for sure. I will say that at 61k miles, unless it was totally ignored maintenance-wise, it shouldn't have any sludge problems that couldn't be carefully remedied. If it's also seen mostly highway miles, then you're probably home free on the sludge (but at that low mileage, does that mean it has been driven by a little old lady on a lot of short trips?). You might get some idea by peeking into the oil fill hole and pulling the PCV hose off and taking a look inside (but it may be pretty nasty regardless of the inside of the engine).

90+% chance the evaporator is leaking - and the entire dash has to come out to get to it. Probably looking at around $450-650 parts and labor if all you have done is replace the evap.

I've priced parts on doing this myself, but including replacing the heater core, every o-ring in the system, a seal kit for the heater/a.c. module, and a metal line I also suspect and carefully picking between aftermarket and OEM parts for a balance between cost and quality, and getting the OEM parts from a discount dealer, I'm looking at $650-700 parts and chemicals plus my "free" labor.

Only you can make that decision. At least you are educating yourself about it and know the risks that you would be taking. I'd say, at that low mileage, your risk is small for sludge if you have any indication at all that oil & filter changes were done fairly regularly (with the assumption that you will take immediate corrective and future preventive measures starting when you get it).

As far as the a.c. - might be worth paying for a leak test - that way you'll know whether you're facing an inevitable $600± evaporator replacement job or not. Otherwise I'd assume a new evaporator as a given.

Oh - and don't trust receipts for oil and filter changes - too much fraud in that area even if the present owner believes they really were changed (the ol' what-the-customer-doesn't-know-won't-hurt-them modern business/MBA philosophy).

One other thing - does the tranny seem to work smoothly? Even if it doesn't, don't let that be a show stopper - it could be a simple matter of a reflash of the TCM (there was an update in late '99 that takes care of some bump issues) or fresh ATF+4 fluid and filter. I believe 98's came with ATF+3, so it would be due for a flush (with ATF+4) and new filter anyway.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

Thanks for the post Bill.

I was not able to take the car in for inspection yet, but will ask the mechanic to do what he can in checking for oil sludge.

My feeling is that the car was pretty well maintained, so I don't think the oil sludge will be a problem.

Regarding the AC, when I went to the dealer, he was already working on the problem. He said the compressor was bad. I think he said he was replacing it, and I saw that the car was being worked on. I will ask the mechanic if they can do a leak test to check if the evaporator has a problem.

As far as the transmission goes, I thought the car shifted smoothly. Should I still ask the dealer to reflash the TCM and a do a filter change and flush with ATF +4?

Will post back after the inspection.

Bill Putney wrote:

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webmaster

You're welcome.

Like I said - be careful. Perhaps you read my posts about helping my daughter buy an emmaculate Jeep Cherokee. Talked to the original owner who had paid for oil *and* filter change every 3000 miles at an Amerilube. When I went to do our first oil/filter change, I found the filter to be a Mopar brand, and the unpainted base crimp was throuoguhly coverd with heavy surface rust. The moral of the story is that people who otherwise maintain their cars well and who therefore very likely paid for very regular oil and filter changes have been defrauded. IOW - the owner integrity and fastidiousness and outward vehicle appearances do not necessarily translate into regular oil and filter changes. That was one of my main points in the previous post.

So you've already bought it? Is the a.c. repair being done on their nickel in preparation for the dealer to sell it (to you possibly)? If that is the case, after the repair, I would get a third party to also leak test it to keep the dealer honest (about the evap. not being bad). sale would be conditional on no leaks being found by an independent third party.

Have them do a check on the revision no. of the firmware and compare to the latest available from MS - err DC. If up to date then that part's done. If not, then they can reflash (either as part of the conditions of you buying it or on your nickel however you negotiate it - I would think it would be a win-win for them to do it as condition of sale since it provides value to you and cost them next to nothing to do). Unless you have indications that the fluid has been replaced with ATF+4, I would have new fluid and filter. Especially if I'm right that it came with ATF+3 (not that ATF+3 is bad - it just doesn't last nearly as long as +4).

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

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Bill Putney

Oh - maybe get written into the sales contract that they are warrantying the a.c. against loss of refrigerant for 6 months - that will give them incentive to be honest with themselves and you that they really did repair it fully (with some risk to them that a new leak (in the evap. perhaps, which they know is somewhat likely) could spring up).

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

I did not read the post on the Jeep Cherokee, but it is good to know. I understand what you mean about a clean vehicle not necessarily meaning a well maintained one.

I have not bought the car yet. The A/C repair is being done by the dealer. A friend of ours who has an Airport Livery Service buys a lot of cars from this dealer. I am confident he is doing what he can to make sure the car is in good working condition before I buy it.

I spoke with the dealer earlier today and he said he needs an extra day to get the compressor replaced for the A/C. Will be able to get the car for inspection tomorrow. After reading your post, I called the dealer and asked them to check the TCM and ATF situation. He said he would check it and get back to me.

I plan to have the car inspected by two separate shops. I will be sure to ask for a leak test and see if the dealer will write a 6 month guarantee for the A/C on the sales contract.

Thanks aga> Bill Putney wrote:

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webmaster

I just got back from having the Concorde inspected.

The mechanic said that the compressor for the A/C that had been replaced on the car was a used compressor.

The mechanic also mentioned the oil sludge situation with the 2.7 L motors but said the motor should be fine if the oil changes had been done. While he felt that this car should be fine, he did say that I may consider purchasing a warranty for the powertrain.

After bringing the car back to the dealer, the dealer mentioned the used compressor and assured me that it worked ok. Without my even asking for one, he offered a 3 month 3,000 mile warranty on powertrain and A/C. I asked about an extended warranty, and the dealer said I could buy a 2 year 30,000 mile warranty for $1000 that would cover the powertrain and A/C. I can even wait to decide on whether or not to buy the additional warranty until just before the initial 3 month 3,000 mile warranty is up.

Is that a good deal for the warranty?

Regarding the transmission, I forgot to ask about the ATF +4 and if he had the TCM reflashed. After driving the car again, it did seem that the engine revved a little high before going to the next gear, but that maybe just the way the car is supposed to be. I will ask tomorrow if he had it reflashed or not.

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webmaster

Well you're getting there. I'd still prefer to pay a third party to have the a.c. leak tested (I can't stress enough: ***especially*** the evaporator - it may be worth $600+ to you later). That way, if you find there is a problem *now* (before signing a contract), you're coming from a point of strength and leverage to get it resolved up front (i.e., if a leak is found, they either fix it, and it gets thrid party tested again, or no sale). If you take it as is and find that the refrigerant leaked out after, say, 2 months due to a slow leak that they mistakenly convinced themselves they fixed, you're totally relying on their integrity to make it right (and honor their warranty without you asserting yourself, i.e., getting nasty with them if their personality changes) - you may trust them, but you're totaly at their mercy at that point.

Powertrain warranty might not be a bad idea (from the right company) in this case. I don't know anything about their pricing, so I'll leave that alone, other than to say that you better get comments from other posters here on the various 3rd party warranty companies - or do a google search on this newsgroup - it's been discussed a bit. There are some real charlatins out there (probably more than there are good ones). "Good" price on the warranty means *zip* of they refuse to pay any claims or go out of business - both of those happen *A* *LOT*.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet > I just got back from having the Concorde inspected.

Reply to
Bill Putney

Thanks for the quick reply.

I forgot to add in my last post about the leak test. I did ask about having a leak test done. I thought the mechanic said they would add dye to the coolant system to test for the leak. He said it could take a week to determine if there was a leak.

With the 3 month 3,000 mile warranty, I will make sure that any future leaks are covered in that warranty.

Several of my friends have bought cars from this dealer, based on their experience, I am confident the dealer will stand behind whatever warranty they offer. They have a service center to work on cars at the dealership. I assume any possible problems that come up while under warranty would be fixed at the dealership.

I will do some research on Used Car Warranty in the news groups.

Again, I appreciate your taking time to advise.

Bill Putney wrote:

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webmaster

You're welcome.

Keep in mind that the evaporator is not in a visible area - if it leaks, you won't be able to see any dye - except possibly in the condensation drip tube from underneath on the firewall (a tip pointed out by Glenn Beasley (Max Power) - but unless they think to look there, they won't be able to tell anything about the evap.

Also keep in mind that the dye won't work (especially for looking at the condensate tube) unless the car and its a.c. are used at least some during the week of waiting.

If targeting the evap. for leaks, the better and more immediate answer is gotten from a competent person using an electronic sniffer (on the passenger compartment vents).

But I realize you have to work with them as and how they allow you to and to the degree you're willing to assert yourself.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

By phone today I asked about the extended warranty I can purchase, and the dealer says it will cover an A/C leak. I will ask specifically about the evaporator though and make sure any problems with it will be covered by the warranty.

The dealer also says the warranty will cover items such as power window problems. I have read many other Concorde owners having problems with those.

Going to bank to get the money and pay the dealer in about 2 hours.

More so> snipped-for-privacy@tfy.com wrote:

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webmaster

You're basing your decision off of verbal promises? Caveat emptor. I'd be very interested in hearing how you come out at the other end of this tunnel.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

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Bill Putney

I appreciate your concern on the warranty. The dealer went through it very carefully with me and it looks good.

The warranty is through Chrysler. The dealer offered me several warranty options. They are as follows:

Powertrain Care Plus Added Care Added Care Plus Maximum Care

In all the above plans, the A/C is covered for the following items: * Compressor * Clutch * Coil * Condenser * Evaporator * Receiver-Drier * Expansion Valve * Hoses and Lines * Low Pressure Cut-Off Switch * High Pressure Cut-Off Switch * Clutch Cycling Switch * Instrument Panel Control Assembly * Power Module * Air Conditioning / Heater Blower Motor * Seals and Gaskets for Listed Components

I went for a 5yr/50k mile Added Care at a cost of $1800. It seems the evaporator is covered as well as a lot of other major components.

Drove the car around for a while today and things seemed fine with the A/C.

However, one thing strange did happen today. I just went for a short drive and when I stopped the car I noticed bright blue smoke coming out from under the left back wheel well. It smelled like burning rubber. I drove around again and stopped to see if the smoke appeared, but everything seemed ok. Any suggestions as to what this might be?

Bill Putney wrote:

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webmaster

Sounds like you're covered.

Most likely exhaust (exits on left rear) or brakes. The car may have been sitting for a while and also has been worked on. Could be a slow leak that had accumulated from sitting, or something got spilled. Look for that at each startup/warmup. If it's coming off the exhaust, it could be a sign of something like bad valve seals. You might pull the left rear brake and look for any brake fluid leaks. Also check for stuck caliper or dragging parking brake shoe. Parking brake was off during the drive?

If you don't see it again, consider it was a one time fluke due to it sitting or a drop of fluid on the exhaust and probably nothing to worry about. If it does happen again or happens regularly, then check into it.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

Parking brake was not on during the drive. I have not used the parking brake yet

Drove around today and checked the exhaust just after startup and after driving for a while. I did not notice the same problem again. I did call the dealer and tell him though in case the problem comes back very soon.

By chance, I happened to find the contact information of the previous owner of the car. A service receipt got left behind in the glove box. Turns out the previous owner of the 98 Concorde serviced the car at the dealership I bought it from. The receipt dated Sept 2005 mentioned some belt changes, spark plug changes and clogged fuel injection. Did not look to be anything really major.

I plan to post my experiences for this 98 Concorde at the Concorde Forum on the Edmunds site. Is there another forum specifically for Concorde owners that is better than the Edmunds one?

Bill Putney wrote:

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webmaster

There really are no good Concorde forums per-se. You'll get tired of Edmunds pretty quick.

Try

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('Forums' button)and
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(the 'Message Board' button takes you to the forums). They are *THE* LH car forums on the internet. The two have different "personalities" - dodgeintrepid.net attracts a younger (at times immature, raucous) crowd. It is more "anything goes". The 300M Club members are more mature and serious, but also know how to have a good time - more moderated (control personal attacks, etc.). However many of the same people hang out at both places. Try them both out and make up your own mind. I have not had any problems being accepted as a fellow car owner at either place even though a Concorde is not a 300M or Intrepid. All three are 95+% the same car mechanically, so if you're looking for maintenance support and mods, either place works for our cars.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

Thank you for the detailed forum recommendations. I looked at the Dodge Intrepid forum. Very interesting. Have not had a chance to view the other one yet.

One thing I discovered while reading through the posts in the Intrepid forum is a problem with the headlight welts on the Concorde.

Here is a link on the forum which discusses them.

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Unfortunately, I was not very diligent in inspecting the cars headlights before buying it. It turns out my 98 Concorde's headlight welts are in bad shape. The car is fitted with a "Le Bra" on the front, so I could not really see there was a problem with the headlight welts. I am not sure, but it appears the previous owner tried using "Great Stuff" fill in the gap foam to seal around the headlight. The places where the "Great Stuff" had been used looks pretty rough up close, so I am guessing they had to put the "Le Bra" on to hide it. With the Le Bra, the car looks nice and it does kind of hide the headlight welt problem.

However, bad headlight welts could allow water to enter the headlights, right? Have you had any problems with the headlight welt > snipped-for-privacy@tfy.com wrote:

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webmaster

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