2001 Intrips SE Windows Fogging

Bob - You seem to have just about covered most of the bases. One thing you danced around a couple of times but without really stating explicitly is if the air that is coming out of the correct vents is actually warm or not. Since you appear to have eliminated that moisture is leaking into the ducting from the heater core and confirmed that the a.c. is working in defrost mode, I am going to assume that the problem is that the air is not getting warm.

Three possible causes that I can think of, and I have read on the LH car forums of all three of these occurring: (1) The heater core is clogged, so, even though your engine is cooling fine, the coolant is not circulating thru the heater core. (2) Your coolant may be low or have an air pocket (actually they are one and the same) - leaving you enough coolant to cool the engine fine, but, again, leaving the heater core without circulating warm coolant. (3) The blend door is not operating correctly. That door is a vane that determine what proportion of the air forced by the fan is going thru the heater core fins vs. going around (bypassing) the heater core.

That's my best shot. Obviously the best scenario would be no. (2) or (3) - and they are both definitely possible. Like I said, I have read many posts by people on the LH car forums where any one of the three has happened.

If the air coming out of the ducting is in fact warm, then, with your having covered the other bases, I'm at a loss as the things I came up with only address the air coming out of the ducts not being warm.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Bill,

As always, thanks for your thoughts. The air that is exiting the defroster and the heater are definitely warm to hot. They can fully warm the vehicle if I drive ~25-30 minutes with an outside air temp of -6F. I will have to take a look a the blend door when the weather gets warmer. Is there supposed to always be "some" leakage to the windshield defroster vents even when on the heater setting? All I can figure is that nothing at all gets directed there and the extreme cold, coupled with the vehicle speed is chilling the windshield. If I heat the passenger compartment using the heater setting, then the moisture from my breath is being absorbed into the warmed air and then condensing on the cold windshield and side windows. Only when the setting is moved to defrost and after the windshield and side windows warm sufficiently does the condensation stop and I get regular visibility.

If anyone has any other thoughts, let me know!

Thanks, Bob.

I'm thinking that that sentence is the key to your problem. You need to put it in defrost from the start. No - there won't be any heat at that point, but the a.c. will run to pull moisture out of the air - that's how it is designed to work. You're not allowing the system to do its job.

Glenn - others - aren't I right on that?

Anyway, Bob - try that and see.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Yup. No different than how my 98 was behaving on Sunday when temperatures were similar. (-9) Got to warm the windshield enough that inside moisture doesn't condense, you can switch to dash vents and aim the two outboard ones at the side windows but then the windshield starts to fog up. Lot of square inches to the LH windshield...

Check the condensate drain. If the water cant get out after its been collected, it will create the condition you describe.

I will check the condensate drain as Deke suggested, but had not been experiencing any issues over the summer when the AC ran regularly and there was always a puddle of water under the front passenger side of the vehicle.

With every other vehicle I have ever owned, I have been able to use the "heat" (floor outlet) or vent (dash outlet) settings, even in super-cold weather. Occasionally I might need to run the defroster or select a setting that provided a mix of both floor and defrost to clear the windshield, but this car is completely different! If I even attempt to turn the control knob to any other setting other than full defrost mode, my windshield and side windows frost over and I lose visibility. In addition, no matter how long I run the defroster when it is really cold outside (below zero F), even to the point where the front windshield and both side front windows are completely clear, and it is actually uncomfortable because it is so warm in the car, the rear windows will still stay completely frosted over. I can run the electric rear window defogger and this clears the rear window so there is visibility, but the rear side windows just never seem to clear up at all.

I really think that there must be some other source for this moisture, but I simply can't find it! If it is not the coolant, and not from the passengers, and not already in the trapped air in the vehicle (which is also sub-zero so should be very dry), then where does it come from? By the way, it has done this since I've owned it (4 years), but only gets really annoying when the temperatures dip to around zero F. Unfortunately, this winter is just plain cold so it is worse than it has been the last few years. As additional info. I'm getting ready to hand down this vehicle to my son this Spring and would like to solve this permanently so that he does not have this trouble next winter.

Bob

At those temperatures the condensate may be freezing in the drain and causing a backup. It sounds to me like condensate is the most likely culprit. Have you checked under the floor mats to ensure you don't have excess moisture there?

(snip)

That puddle of water is the first indication that the drain is clogged. You had issues this summer. Your drain is clogged. Unclog it, and no puddle, no window condensation.

Deke

As suggested make sure the drain is not stopped up. If there is a lot of moisture in the vehicle be it from wet carpet (rain or snow) it will take awhile to get the moisture out. But if the windows are still damp inside after the engine coolant is at operating temps and the moisture is still in the vehicle there is something wrong. Make sure the RECIRC door is working. If the recirc door is closed, it will take a long time to get the moisture out. It wouldn't hurt to do a recalibration on the system. With the vehicle at room temperature (Garage) 10°-27° C. (50° to 80° F.), Disconnect the battery

for ten minutes to erase DTCs.

1. Reconnect the battery and start the vehicle, this will initiate the HVAC system calibration.

Allow approximately five minutes for the calibration to complete.

1. Operate the vehicle and HVAC system to verify that Symptoms and/or DTCs are gone.

Deke - I think you mis-read where he said "had not been experiencing any issues over the summer when the AC ran regularly and there was always a puddle of water under the front passenger side of the vehicle." I read it wrong the first time too. He's saying that the drain drains onto the ground ("...under the front passenger side of the vehicle") just like it's supposed to.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

He's got the base model, Glenn - i.e., manual temp controls, no ATC. Reset won't affect a manual system, or will it?

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

ATC or manual. If the OP has access to a scan tool, the BCM may want to be scanned for any door problems

Both the Automatic Temperature Control (ATC) and the Manual Temperature Control (MTC) systems are controlled by the Body Control Module (BCM). Both systems can be diagnosed by the scan tool or the vehicles own control head display. There are three DTC tables. The ATC and MTC DTC table contain faults that are common to both the ATC and the MTC system. The same diagnosis can be used for both systems. The DTC's cover operation of the climate control unit actuators, doors, evaporator temperature sensor, ambient temperature sensor and the A/C refrigerant system. The MTC DTC table covers Fault Codes that are for the MTC Control Head and wiring and are not used on an ATC system. The ATC DTC table has DTC's for ATC Head Communications, In-Car Temperature Sensor and Sun Sensor which are not in a MTC system.

Some conditions of low battery voltage or extremely cold weather can generate a DTC for the climate control system actuators, evaporator probe, in-car temperature sensor (ATC), or ambient temperature sensor, even in a properly operating system.

ATC AND MTC DTC's CODE DESCRIPTION 23 BLEND DOOR ACTUATOR FEEDBACK FAILURE 24 MODE DOOR ACTUATOR FEEDBACK FAILURE 25 AMBIENT SENSOR 31 RECIRCULATION DOOR ACTUATOR STALL FAILURE 32 BLEND DOOR ACTUATOR STALL FAILURE 33 MODE DOOR ACTUATOR STALL FAILURE 35 EVAPORATOR SENSOR FAILURE 37 BLEND DOOR ACTUATOR OUTPUT SHORTED TO BATTERY 38 BLEND DOOR ACTUATOR OUTPUT SHORTED TO GROUND 39 MODE DOOR ACTUATOR OUTPUT SHORTED TO BATTERY 40 MODE DOOR ACTUATOR OUTPUT SHORTED TO GROUND 41 RECIRCULATION DOOR ACTUATOR OUPUT SHORTED TO BATTERY 42 RECIRCULATION DOOR ACTUATOR OUTPUT SHORTED TO GROUND 43 COMMON DOOR OUTPUT SHORTED TO BATTERY 44 COMMON DOOR OUTPUT SHORTED TO GROUND 51 SYSTEM VOLTAGE TOO LOW FOR DOOR CALIBRATION

MTC DTC's CODE DESCRIPTION 45 A/C CONTROL BLEND DOOR INPUT OPEN OR SHORTED TO GROUND 46 A/C CONTROL BLEND DOOR SHORTED TO BATTERY 47 A/C CONTROL - A/C SWITCH FAILURE 48 A/C CONTROL MODE DOOR INPUT SHORTED TO GROUND 49 A/C CONTROL MODE DOOR INPUT SHORTED TO BATTERY 50 A/C CONTROL ELECTRIC BACKLITE (EBL) SWITCH FAILURE

Also check that you have the Fresh air setting on. If you have it on recirculate this will cause your windows to fog up.

Why does a pool of water under the passenger side where the drain is located indicate a problem? Every car I have owned that was equipped with AC did this ...

I agree it is worth checking, but not till it warms up some since my garage is not heated and temperatures here have been brutal.

Thanks to all for their thoughts.

Bob

Glenn,

Thanks. I've saved the info you supplied for future reference. By the way, I do not own a scan tool and have never had this vehicle to the dealer for any service. I did just replace the battery (it was 6 years old) and had the old one out for ten or more minutes before getting the new one installed, and this had no affect on the situation.

So I've got two things to check: 1) A/C drain and 2) recirculation door.

As to there being moisture in the passenger compartment, I do have the heavy floor mats in there that catch the snow and water and they do retain some moisture, but I have these in other Chrysler vehicles and used similar models in my previous car, which was a 1996 LH and had no problems. I've got a couple things to look at when the weather improves. If that does not work then it will go to the dealer to be scanned!

Thanks to all for the replies.

Bob

As mentioned previously, I have the base (no frills) SE model. The recirculate setting on the control knob is only available at the two top most positions (when using the dashboard vents), which I never use in the winter (only use the bottom tow settings - windshield defrost and floor heat in winter). But, as Glenn pointed out, it may not be working properly and in fact be stuck in the recirculate position ... so must be examined to eliminate that possibility. Thanks.

PS I used to have the auto climate control system on my previous vehicle, a

1996 Eagle Vision TSI. That system always worked flawlessly... It certainly outperformed this system on the 2001 Intrepid SE and also the one in my 1999 Town & Country Limited van too!

Bob

I think he mis-read your post, Bob. When you said a pool of water

*under* the passenger side (i.e., on the garage floor), I believe he was thinking a pool of water *in* the passenger side (i.e., wet carpet).

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

When you replaced the battery....did you replace it outside the calibration window of 50-80 degrees? or did you do it outside in the cold weather? which would mean it was not calibrated correctly. Did this problem occur after the battery was replaced or was it possibly caused by a faulty battery?

Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech

-- Message posted using

information at