2002 Sebring Electrical Failure...Battery?

Assuming when you mean totally dead you mean no power to anything, dome lites, radio all that ? It is more then likely a loose/corroded connection and with a volt meter in hand and when it happens a simple voltage drop test would locate the problem.

Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech

Glenn: Yes, I mean totally dead - just as if the cables had been disconnected. My frustration (& the dealer's) is that the problem must present itself before the faulty connection/component can be identified. The dealer said they checked everything, but evidently Chrysler extended warranty does not pay them until they diagnose the actual problem - hence there's little incentive for them to really dig into it. Very frustrating situation. Bill.

Depending on what contract you have with Chrysler Would determine if the repair would even be covered when they located it. The Max care plan would be the best to buy but even those plans will not pay diagnostic time unless there is a failed part or if the repair is under a TSB. I go thru this all the time at the dealer. The Technicians want to fix the car and want to get paid for it. the owners say they have a service contract... but its the owners responsibility to authorize all check out time until the problem is located and verified if it is a covered repair. Have you checked the battery installation your self to make sure the terminals are tight? Does the radio reset the stations and the clock reset to 12:00 when this happens to verify a battery problem? Have you tried to wiggle grounds and battery feeds to duplicate the problem?

Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech

Glenn Chrysler said it's covered, once it's found (!) As I recall (it's been

6 months now since the first of 2 episodes) the clock/radio had to be reset. I'll probably get under the car and check ground connections, etc. Since I'm involved with mostly older Porsche 911s, it's about all I feel comfortable with. Example: From on top of the engine compartment, I can't even trace the + battery cable visually. One problem that was addressed (under warranty) was a leaking thermostat housing. I asked the service rep if this could be related to the electrical issue, seeping fluid down onto the alternator, etc. below it especially when the hot motor has been turned off. He said no - however since the leak was fixed, the electrical problem has not shown itself. Question: Have you (or anyone reading this thread) ever had a newer battery just "go bad" and dump it's charge? I & my wrench-head friends can't actually remember such an incident. Bill.

To nail this one you have to start carrying a multimeter in the car. The next time it happens, pop the hood and measure voltage at the battery terminals when someone tries starting the car. If there is 12 volts and the voltage doesent change when the key is turned then it's probably bad battery cables.

However if the voltage drops to zero, then the battery has been discharged and you have something else happening. The problem is you probably have a bad starter. Here is the reasoning. In order to drop a fresh battery dead in 15 minutes you have to have a massive short across the battery that will carry many many amps of current.

No wiring in the vehicle EXCEPT the battery cables from the battery to the starter can carry that amount of current without instantly melting. Furthermore, few components in the car can tolerate that much current flowing through them without catching fire and burning up. The starter is one of these that can tolerate it.

What is going on is you have a loose screw or some such in the starter. 99% of the time it works fine. 1% of the time the starter spins down and jams the screw or ends up in a funny position. The next time you start the car the second the selonoid switches on it presents practically a direct short to the battery, and you get hundreds of amps dumped into the starter, The starter does not turn over, and the battery gets almost immediately drained. You tow the car somewhere and the bumping and banging jostles the starter and gets it unstuck.

Ted

Ted: Great diagnosis....I'll get under there this weekend & maybe see what's going on. I was told by a dealer mechanic (not service advisor) that if I check anything myself to leave no "footprint", as any attempted repair/tampering by non-authorized repair station can screw-up the extended warranty. Thanks again to you & Glenn. If you hear on the network news that someone's charred remains were found in Calif. under a melted ball of Sebring, you'll know that I at least located the problem! Bill.

So you yourself haven't checked the Battery terminals at the battery? I have seen batteries get installed and this happen down the road many times, especially with the side post terminals. Me personally, not a starter problem.

Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech

Glenn: I'll be double checking those too - the dealer service advisor said they checked them, but I have little faith in him at this point. Thanks, Bill.

Not a chance. Even a direct short wouldn't "immediately" drain the battery, and a short like that would have the insulation dripping from the battery cables. Not to mention a smoke cloud.

B.S.! Anyone who knows Ohm's law knows what a voltage drop test is. What kind of engineers are you hanging out with?

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

As others have said you need to search around with a voltmeter or test lamp when the problem happens. Intermittent problem are the hardest to locate in any device, have patience with your dealer. My wife often laughs at me when I struggle with a problem for several days, even partly dismantling a device. She understands when only one trip to the dealer is necessary to resolve it or I fix it myself for a few dollars. How frustrating it is when the dealer doesn't pass my diagnosis on to the shop and my car is returned the same. It's happened a few times and when I get to communicate directly with the mechanic he quickly recognizes the cause.

I had it happen twice overnight with two bad Sears Diehard

What you just posted makes no sense whatsoever. Either you didn't say what you intended to say or you know nothing about electricity.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Let's see - I'm a degreed and licensed engineer, been doing circuit design for 20+ years, and I don't know how to check for a voltage drop? OK - whatever you say.

You don't say specifically which terminals to put the leads on (nor where on those terminals - i.e, on the battery terminal/post itself or on the cable clamp around the post) and you don't say what you mean by "reversing" the leads.

Normally reversing the leads means putting the positive (red) meter lead where the negative (black) lead was and vice-versa, but that can't be right because you claim that that will tell you whether you have a bad ground or a bad power connection - which is pure b.s. going by what the rest of the world understands the phrase "reversing the leads" to mean.

And you don't say which way to apply the leads first - you simply imply that no matter which way you apply them first will tell you you have a bad ground, and when you "reverse" them, that will tell you if you have a bad power connection. You may know what you are doing and can do it yourself, but - if that's the case - you sure lack the verbal skills to tell someone else how to do it. I defy you to take any non-technical person to try to follow your posted directions and not have at least 3 valid questions before they're half-way thru the process. And any technical person is going to tell you that you either don't know what you're talking about or you simply lack the means to express it.

Care to try again with specifics of exactly where to apply the leads (positive terminal?, negative terminal?, battery post? or cable clamp?, etc. etc., etc.)? BTW - reversing the leads doesn't come into play you're looking for a voltage drop - the + or - sign is going to depend on which direction you have the leads - but whether you're testing for bad ground or bad power connection will not - all you care about is "Is there a voltage drop" - polarity is not what matters (it is determined by the direction of lead placement relativ to the current flow) -

*amplitude* (of voltage drop) tells all in this case.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

philthy wrote: