300C

How much did you pay? How tough was it dealing with the dealer? (did you deal) ?

Try MSN Auto and Kelley Blue Book.

I don't know if I believe this. I would have thought the markup to MSRP would have been more like 10 or 12%, not 7 or 8%.

2005 Chrysler 300 Base Touring Limited C Base Retail Price (MSRP) $22,970 $26,770 $29,265 $32,370 Base Invoice Price $21,513 $24,933 $27,228 $29,973 Destination Charge $625 $625 $625 $625 MSRP markup from invoice 6.8% 7.4% 7.5% 8%

Wow - not a lot of negotiating room with the dealer. Not a lot of room for rebates or incentives either. This is take-no-prisoners pricing.

Wasn't there a bigger difference between invoice and MSRP for the M/M-special?

The "MSRP" is a phony number that really doesn't mean anything, except as a ploy for dealers to claim that they are "discounting" to unsophisticated customers.

Even the invoice doesn't indicate what the dealer pays either, or with customer's 'negotiation room.' The factory pays dealers money back, off-invoice, in the form of holdback and factory-dealer rebates.

The MSRP comes from the factory and is (by law) displayed on the "monroney" sheet affixed to the vehicle (usually the inside window).

Ideally, the manufacturer wants the dealer to charge the customer the stated MSRP amount, and not have to resort to factory rebates to move the product off the lot.

The MSRP serves the purpose of a starting point for negotiating a price (at least it's the starting point the dealer would want to start with, as opposed to starting at dealer invoice and working up).

There is something called an advertising allowance that seems to be a few hundred dollars per vehicle (maybe $500 max) that's supposed to cover the dealer's cost to sell the vehicle.

The holdback used to be 3% on Chrysler vehicles a few years go (not sure if that's changed).

I think the holdback reflects the dealer's financing cost to buying and insure the car and keeping it on the lot for, say, 90 days - which means the longer a particular car has been sitting on the lot the less of a chance you have to subtract the holdback from the invoice price when you make an offer to buy. I'm pretty sure that the holdback exists only for "the big-3" and not for Jap cars.

If you custom order a vehicle then the holdback is money in the dealer's pocket so you should take that into account when negotiating.

When I custom orded a 2001 Ram, I factored in the holdback (about $800), a $1750 factory rebate, and a $500 Chrysler coupon mailed to existing customers.

Perhaps, but it is still largely a phony number that doesn't mean anything useful. You really don't need to use it in negotiations and from the consumer's point of view it is better not to. The MSRP does have meaning in some states though, because they base their annual auto property taxes on the original MSRP and depreciate based on that number, not the actual original selling price or even current blue book value.

The advertising fee goes back to the factory to cover their advertising costs for the region. You may notice on some car ads that they say something like "visit your southern california xxx dealer today!" It's a way to itemize the costs of doing business and pass them directly and separately to the consumer.

Nope. The holdback is to artificially and legally increase the invoice price so that the dealer has more leverage when showing the invoice price to the consumer. Japanese manufacturers use holdback too, although it is typically 2% plus dealer rebates.

So the fact that some Mercedes has an MSRP of, say, $90,000 while a

300C might have an MSRP of $30,000 means nothing, and I should offer to buy either at, say, $25,000 and have an equal chance of being accepted?

Look. The maker of ANY widget has an MSRP that's very VERY carefully computed based on many things (direct input costs, marketing costs, size of the market, demand, supply, etc). They don't just choose a bunch of random numbers and throw them on a price sheet (like you seem to make it sound like).

Nope. The holdback is not *added* to nor increases the dealer invoice cost.

For example, if the dealer invoice on a car is $20,000, and the holdback is 3% (or $600 in this case) then the dealer's "true" cost (upon delivery) is $19,400. IF the buyer thinks (or knows) the invoice is $20,000, and starts negotiating at that point, then he's "giving" the dealer $600 to start with. The salesman will say that he's got to put food on the table, and will want you to kick in at least $500 above invoice, etc etc.

However, if that car is still sitting on the lot a few months after the dealer "bought" it, then he's lost some money on it (his own financing and insurance costs) so that the $600 "bonus" he got when car rolled onto his lot has evaporated and his ownership costs for the car are now closer to (if not equal to) the published dealer invoice price.

You can do what you want, but the MSRP is a phony number, useful for marketing purposes but not much else.

The negotiations would proceed based upon what you are willing to pay and what the dealer is going to sell it for. What he will sell it for is based on the profit he would make, which is based on what he effectively pays for the vehicle, not the MSRP.

Incorrect for cars. The MRSP has nothing to do with such costs. It is just a number they make up, if anything it is based on "perceived value" but has nothing to do with what the car costs to make or what the dealer pays for it.

I'm afraid you misunderstood what I wrote.

I'm not sure where you are getting your information from. A family member owns a car dealership, so I was trying to offer information based on how a real dealer works.

By the way, the best way to get the best price for a car is to forget the MSRP, and even forget the invoice price. Solicit dealers in your area to bid on the car meeting your specifications.

Ask your relative (who owns a dealership) if the Dealer-Invoice to MSRP ratio is constant across what-ever cars they sell.

Then please clarify what you said.

Is the holdback deducted from what the dealer pays?

It's not worth a salesman's time to play that game. You think you can get a bunch of them from different dealerships into the same room and fight each-other over a single sale? No way. You think you're gonna be able to play that game over the phone? No way. You're gonna get pretty tired shlepping across town telling each dealer that the other dealer just gave you a lower price.

Best way is to know roughly (or exactly) what a dealer pays for a car and start from there. Especially if the car you want is on his lot. Any incentives or discounts are factored in _after_ you've negotiated a price.

Now, all the above assumes that you're paying cash for the car. If you want the dealer to hook you up with a financing deal then that's an added dimension to the negotiations and I have no idea if things like monthly payments or APR financing rates are up for negotiation or not.

It's not.

Holdback is paid from the factory to the dealer, typically on a monthly basis.

Nonsense. Typically you will deal with the fleet guy, not with a salesman. Send the dealership a serious bid with your exact specifications. Send to a bunch, not just one dealer. Fax is fine.

You're not negotiating what a dealer pays and you're almost certainly never going to find that out. That's really not going to help you negotiate the price that YOU want to pay anyway.

I don't see how.

First negotiate a price. Then do any finance negotiations that you want from the dealer. Never mix the two negotiations! Honestly you're almost certainly going to find a better financing deal elsewhere than a dealer if you don't want to pay in cash. An exception is when the factory itself is offering a special finance deal, but even then it may pay to take the cashback if available instead. Most "dealer financing" is provided by a local bank for which the dealer gets a (substantial) kick back. You can almost certainly do better, especially at say a credit union.

Interior will

Yes if truth be told this car and the new 300 x concept are

the true Lady magnets...even Diana and Celine Cat-fight over this one

3.8 or 5.7 liter v8 rwd and 8 person capacity