'99 Intrepid

I've been hearing horror stories of damaged engines from having a timing belt break. Does anyone know if my '99 Intrepid 2.7 liter engine has a belt or a chain? I bought the car used and don't know if this has ever been looked at. The car now has 115,000 miles on it and runs great. I'm just a little leary about a possible preventative maintenance issue that may have been over looked.

Reply to
Randy
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Chain.

Larry Behold Beware Believe

Reply to
Larry Crites

Randy wrote:

Lots and lots of discussion on this at

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forums - they have a good search function.

Yes - as the other poster said - a timing chain. I have read of timing chain failure, but they may have been secondary results of serious sludge problems (for one thing, then tensioner is tenioned by the oil system). From my reading, I think the majority of failures have been due to oil starvation of other components (bearings, valve train) due to the same severe sludging.

One thng that is claimed to kill a lot of them is the water pump that is driven by the chain - I put designing an engine with the water pump internal to the oil volume right up there with designing interference engines with timing belts (not that this engine falls into the latter category) as one of the most blantant examples of engineering malpractice in modern automotive history. If they start leaking and are not noticed or are ignored, then there will be serious damage (coolant in engine oil). The other thing is that the engine is prone to severely sludge up (related or not to water pump leakage). Mostly hiway driving and good oil maintenance should make a huge difference with that (unless the failures are always related to water pumps, in which case no amount of oil changing or driving type will save it). There are those that will tell you that that is always due to water pump failure (catastrophic or long-term slow leakage, I'm not sure) - but I'm not convinced. My gut feel is that there have been water pump failures, which certainly would have been catastrophic (coolant in the oil and bearings or plain old water pump lockup which tends to do a real job on the timing chain and chain drive components) but that many failures are oil sludge-up unrelated to pump failure (or I'm willing to believe slow seepage of the water pump possibly in a large majority of cases).

My '99 2.7 has 145+ kmiles on it now and is running great - it gets driven 80 miles a day 97% hiway, and I change oil at 3000 to 4000 miles (I change filter every time), and I add 1/4 qt. of Marvel Mystery Oil during every oil change as a sludge preventative (when I first bought it at 58k, as a corrective). Am I just lucky that the water pump hasn't leaked or otherwise failed, or is it doing so well because of the type of driving and my "brilliant" maintenance plan? Only God and the DC engineers know for sure because the latter ain't talking. I can say that DC has very quietly done some simple mods to the engine starting in either '00 or '01 to improve lubrication and breathing (for one thing, they added a heat exchanger to the PCV hose which tended to clog slam up with crud - I added that item to mine about 4 months ago). I have to assume that they know all about the real causes of the problems, and I doubt they'd be spending money on the lube system if the water pump was the problem while usung it as the baseline engine in at least one of their latest vehicle lines.

For max. water pump life, I use the recommended G-05 coolant only - perhpas that is the other "brilliant" part of my engine maintenance that has paid off.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

Oh - and whatever you do, don't panic and do what a lot of people do and suddenly switch over to synthetic oil. For a heavily sludged up engine, the cure's worse than the disease - synhteitc oil has a very high inherent detergent property, and you don't want tons of sludge being suddenly released into your lube system. I warn people constantly on DI.net aboput that, and yet at least twice a month (two in the last 4 days) someone will post that they have 'X' (usually in the 85 to 120k range) miles on their 2.7, and they switched over to synthetic, and a few days or two weeks later, it is making all kinds of metallic knocking sounds and getting worse.

For a high mileage engine that might be sludged up, you would have to do a very gradual and deliberate cleanout before switching over to synthetic. There are a couple of good ways to do that - one of which is

*not* a sudden kerosene or similar chemical flush. Personally I chose not to go with synthetic, but have taken other measures to remove and prevent sludge - but that also involves a similar gradual pre-cleanout. Ask if interested.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

Thanks for clearing up my question on the timing chain. Now you've got me wondering about the engine oil! I've been routinely taking my car for oil changes every 5000 kms to the local Wal-Mart or Canadian Tire. I assume that they are using an approved grade of engine oil for my car. Does the oil that these two companies typically use cause excessive sludge buildup? Should I be considering using something to clean it up?

Reply to
Randy

I bought my 99 Intrepid with 91,000 miles on it. I put Valvoline MaxLife in it, and use the 3,000 mile schedule. After a couple changes, Valvoline came out with a Synthetic MaxLife, which I now use. Just did my third change with this oil, and no problems, or noises. Now at over 102,000 miles on this car. I can still see some sludge through the oil filler opening in the valve cover, so it's not "washing" away immediately, I guess. However, there may not be a lot of buildup, as it appears this vehicle was well taken care of. The only "oiling" problem I'm experiencing is that after some highway driving, or a few shutoffs and startups around town, the Oil Pressure light flickers on at idle. No noises, and goes out immediately on acceleration. It's been doing this since I bought it a year ago.

Larry Behold Beware Believe

Reply to
Larry Crites

I would snoop behind them and make sure the changes are really being done. I have seen first-hand way too many instances of people who pay for such services but who obviously (to the shop) wouldn't know an oil filter from and 02 sensor getting charge for oil and filter change and not getting one or both. Before you take it in, find out what the filter looks like and where it is located, check the level and color of the oil on the dipstick,and notice some distinguishing marks on the filter - or mark it yourself. Then when you get it back check, check the oil and filter to see if the oil and filter have obviously been changed.

And yes - find out what oil and filter they are using, and if you have choices, specify your own. It's a paradox for those not wanting to know anything about their car and just trusting someone to do it and do it right that the only way to not get totally screwed is to learn some basics and actually crawl under it once in a while - which you are paying someone to avoid having to do in the first place. But until the lazy and greed genes are removed from humans, it's a fact of life.

I've got to wonder how many people have lost 2.7's because they were paying for services, like oil and filter changes, that weren't being performed and just didn't realize it.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

That's an known problem and an easy fix. It's covered in a TSB, and the prescribed remedy really works. Replace the oil pressure switch and install a vent wire (around $16 at the dealer for the vent wire). What happens is that the pressure switch starts seeping oil into the sealed switch connector cavity, which in and of itself is not a problem. But that feeds pressure back to the ambient side of the pressure switch and shifts its trip point so that under hot idle conditions when the oil pressure is still adequate but at its lowest, the light will come on. Speeding the engine up by taking it out of gear or pushing just a little on the gas pedal will extinguish the light. The vent wire is strictly for relieving back presure to the switch due to temperature changes and if the new switch ever starts seeping.

As a precaution, you might have the oil pressure tested, but I'm 99% certain that the new switch and vent wire will fix it - paying to have the pressure tested will probably only give you assurance that you don't really have a pressure problem, but I'd hate to see you not have it tested and then later have a problem because of low oil pressure.

The TSB No. is 08-36-99. You might want to have that number in your pocket when you go to the dealer to either order the parts or have them do the install - otherwise, they'll probably not be able to find the part number for the vent wire (you kind of have to lead them by the hand on these things sometimes).

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

Thanks for all of that information. I was planning on having the pressure tested, just for peace of mind, if nothing else. I had heard about the sending unit and vent wire. Will check into everything right away. Thanks again!

Larry Behold Beware Believe

Reply to
Larry Crites

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