Autm. car: Put in Neutral at Red Traffic Lights?

I would like to know your opinion about the fact to put the gear in (N) Neutral at the red traffic lights or just keep pressed the brake in (D) Drive? I sow many people change from D to N during this time.

When I drove a classic car (manual), in the past, I used to put the gear in neutral also during the red traffic lights, of couse the transmission system is total different.

My actual car is a Voyager 89, 4 cyls, 2.5 tbi.

Thanks for you comments, Chris

Reply to
Christian
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Shifting into Neutral may cause extra transmission wear because it will downshift to 1st when you stop, then shift to neutral, then back to 1st when you want to go. It would be minimal but it is a factor. You could shift into neutral as you approach, but you won't be in gear if you need it.

However if the wait will be long, it could be beneficial to shift to neutral.

Reply to
Bill 2

I think Bill is right about the wear being greater if you shift to neutral at a red light. But you did not say WHY you were asking! (Are you trying to avoid unexpected accelleration?) - RM

Reply to
Rick Merrill

Dunno about wear, but.... it is very dangerous to take your foot off the brake while waiting at a traffic signal,, someone only needs to tap you (5 mph or so)to drive you into another vehicle, or worse into the intersection ,,,, neutral,, I don't care, but keep your foot on that brake and your eyes open !!

Just my $.02

Reply to
Ted

Reply to
jdoe

I see no practical benefit from doing this. If anything, the extra shifting will wear out the transmission faster. I can't think of anything off-hand that wears out more from being in gear at a stop. The TC is dragging a little, but nothing is wearing in it.

A manual is different as you are wearing the throw-out bearing sitting with the clutch depressed for a long period of time. Plus your foot gets tired if you are driving a very big truck.

Matt

Reply to
Matthew S. Whiting

In some parts of the world, the recommendation is to place the vehicle into neutral and apply the parking brake.. this procedure must be followed during a driving test.. however, most after having passed said test just depress the clutch and brake pedal.. with auto transmission, most people just keep the brake depressed at lights because the stop will be relatively short, and one of the main reasons for having auto trans in the first place is to avoid changing in and out of gear.. the problem with leaving the vehicle in drive is that if you are rear ended, the jolt might make you take pressure off the brake pedal, and you will 'power' forwards.. best is to leave in drive, but use the parking brake if it is the type where the lever is between the seats.. for long stops, place the vehicle in 'park'.. do whatever you feel is right for you

Reply to
Mike Hall

I've never seen, heard (before now) or read a recommendation to use the parking brake when in traffic. What parts of the world recommend that? I can't imagine something more stupid than that. If you are pulled off to the side of the road and parking, then, yes, apply the parking brake. However, not in traffic, unless you are backed up for a wreck or something and know that you will be there a long time. However, the question was waiting at traffic lights and that is not the place to use the parking brake.

Matt

Reply to
Matthew S. Whiting

In the UK, it is known as a 'hand'brake, and they do recommend that it is used whenever the vehicle is brought to a halt.. the premis is that with the handbrake applied, the vehicle can't move in any direction inadvertantly unless great force is applied..

Reply to
Mike Hall

I don't think 89 Voyager's have a hand brake. Yes, a hand actuated break is quite different from a typical American style parking break. When I had cars with a hand brake, I used it on hills when I had a standard transmission, but never felt the need with an automatic. Since the OP mentioned an automatic in a vehicle with a foot actuated parking brake, I answered in that context.

I lived an drove in the UK for several months and this recommendation doesn't surprise me! :-)

However, the stated premise is bogus. Most hand brakes only operate on the rear wheels. Most cars have most of their weight on the front wheels. Holding the foot brake provides probably 3X as much resistance to motion as does the hand brake. So, if preventing the car from being pushed into an intersection is the goal, then holding the foot brake firmly is much more effective, and can be released more quickly if the driver needs to move quickly to avoid being rear-ended or some such.

Matt

Reply to
Matthew S. Whiting

Re. the difference between a US parking and UK handbrake, while the positioning and modus operandii may be different, the brake works in essentially the same way.. the only reason that the parking brake was/is foot operated is because of the bench seat configuration that did not allow for the placement of a centre mounted 'easy to get at' hand/parking/emergency brake.. the Brit answer for the bench seat configuration was the 'Shooting Brake', a manually operated handle and trigger system in roughly the same position as the north american foot operated parking/emergency brake.. a piece of trivia for you.. Brit Station Wagons, known as Estates there (but known as Touring in Euro) were often referred to a Shooting Brakes partly because of the type of handbrake used, and also because they were favored by the 'country set/shooting/hunting' cliques..

In the manual for my Grand Cherokee, it states that when parking, the transmission should be placed in the 'park' position AND the manual brake applied.. the park position is not an alternative to the parking brake and should not be treated in that way.. but most of us are lazy, and the foot operated parking brakes are awkward at best.. in our old S10, I sometimes left it with the parking brake applied, and when my wife gotten into it, she would 'pop' the hood.. the parking brake release was just above the hood release and looked similar.. placement like that does not encourage use of the manual brake regardless of what it is called across the world..

Accepting the smiley, Brits emigrating to Canada do not have to be retested if they hold a UK driving licence.. partly due to the colonial links maybe, but also because the UK test is tougher than most.. I am not suggesting that they are all necessarily better drivers, but they do not have the excuse that they were not well informed prior to being allowed to drive.. lol..

Hand brakes operate on rear wheels because it was thought to be more effective to have the driving axle braked, and also because it was easier to route a linkage to the fixed axle at the back, regardless of weight distribution.. some Italian cars have had front wheel parking brakes, Alfa Romeo for example, but they are not the norm..

Holding the foot brake down is obviously more effective than the pressure that can be applied by any manual braking system, but this assumes that pressure is still being exerted.. in the event of being rear ended, the shock could momentarily cause you to release pressure.. the idea of moving forwards quickly to avoid a rear hit is ok as long as nobody is in front of you.. a car, truck or rig would be bad enough, but a mother and two kids crossing at the lights would be much worse.. that is not to say that a handbraked car would not move forwards, but it would not move anything like as far or fast as a car in 'drive' and no brakes being applied in the split second after the impact..

Matt, I am not attempting to 'troll' here.. for the most part, I have the same bad habits as everybody else.. unfortunately, that does not vindicate us in a court when charged with involuntary manslaughter.. the argument that we were saving the transmission or the manual brake was just too difficult to get at, and in any case, eating a burger and holding a Coke while talking on the cellphone was as much as could be coped with at the time of being rear ended by someone doing the same plus looking at a map precariously balanced on the steering wheel.. I have seen Brits doing just that.. lol..

My grandfather once said that sometimes pedestrians were not always easy to see, and that it was their duty to get out of the way.. I asked him for an instance and he came back with a dirty windshield scenario.. when I suggested that maybe he owed it to other road users to keep his windshield clean, he looked at me quizically.. lol..

Stay safe, Matt.. and I propose a toast.. let us hope that our laziness and bad habits only become a problem when there is nobody around to hit.. Salut.. :)

Reply to
Mike Hall

Not necessary unless you will be stopped for several minutes (e.g. a accident ahead has the street closed). Normal traffic light cycle times, no.

Reply to
James C. Reeves

I think there is quite a significant difference. The console mounted hand brake can be easily applied, released and even modulated all with one hand. The American style foot parking brake requires the foot to apply, the hand to release and isn't easily modulated. The main exception is some foot brakes where you apply it with your foot and then press it again with your foot to release it. The has the advantage of not requiring two limbs to operate, but it still can't be modulated.

I wasn't commenting on the quality of British drivers, I was commenting on some of the ridiculous government requirements in Britain!

Trouble is, few cars in Japan or the US are RWD. And the minivan in question in this thread is FWD.

Yes, bad driving is not the domain of any one country to be sure. I've been in several large cities in Europe as well as cities such as St. Petersburg, Russia. I think Russia and Italy probably have the worst drivers overall with France not far behind, at least of the places I've been in or know something about. I think American drivers are in general less skillful than those in Europe, but, IMO, the European drive much more aggressively and recklessly and this extra risk taking more than offsets any skill advantage.

And the laws in most countries do not agree with your grandfather.

Cheers, Matt

Reply to
Matthew S. Whiting

This assumes the engine stalls. I was rearended once and the force threw the rearview mirror into the back seat. My 31TH transmission remained in gear and the engine kept turning. I know Ford has fuel cut off valves for rear end accidents, but I'm not 100% sure about Chryco. Either way it is possible to be rearended and not exceed the threshold for the valve. Anyways, at idle a car can only get about 5 km/h (10 downhill). Chances are if the crash was severe enough to knock your foot off the pedal the other car will be providing your acceleration, the power provided by your engine would be minimal.

I was wondering what kind of self important person would post something like this. Then I looked at the name and it said it all.

Reply to
Bill 2

Beg to disagree. I have had a foot-operated parking brake in Europe for years and much prefer it. (Mercedes only introduced the 'handbrake' in the

190 because there was no room for a foot-operated one.)

DAS

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

Thank you for your good information and advices. Chris

Reply to
Christian

I'm curious, why did you prefer it? I've had cars with both and I find the hand brake much more versatile. The foot parking brake really is only useful for parking, whereas, the hand brake is useful for parking, hill holding, skid practice, etc.

Matt

Reply to
Matthew S. Whiting

You are right, Bill.. power would be negligible, but the fact remains that Brits are told to use the handbrake to prevent the car either making its own way in an uncontrolled manner, or being pushed too far by the vehicle behind.. a freewheeling car has to travel further than a car that is braked.. there may only be a one in a million chance of one's foot slipping off of the brake pedal and onto the accelerator, but these guidelines are suggested in an attempt to prevent any such scenario.. the fact that we all consider ourselves too good a driver to have to use the manual brake does not stop people being injured by our sloppy practices.. also, a 5km/h impact with a child would be enough to kill..

Reply to
Mike Hall

... a freewheeling car has to travel further than a car that is

Cars and trucks with stiff clutch pedals are advised to put the vehicle in neutral and put on the brake to prevent (a) slipping foot off clutch will not cause it to lurch forward and (b) not slip backwards either. - RM

Reply to
Rick Merrill

My experience is that hand brakes aren't much good for ANYTHING. They rarely have enough leverage to actually apply the brakes, or are adjusted for so much lever travel relative to brake shoe travel (to get the needed leverage) that they go out of adjustment in 10,000 miles. At the other extreme, foot-brakes rarely DON'T work.

As for hill holding- better to learn heel-and-toe technique than to fool around with a handbrake.

Reply to
Steve

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