Brake inspection not part of standard service!?

Our '02 300M has been serviced regularly at 3000 Mile (never much longer) intervals by a Chrysler dealer.

Today they called to say that the left rear brake pads are worn to the point that there is metal-to-metal contact with wear greater than will permit skimming the rotor, so $290 for new rotor + pads + labor.

I asked how come it could have worn so much in 3000 miles and how come they didn't detect it 3000 miles ago and replace the pads, saving me the cost of a new rotor now. They said that checking the brakes is only a

15,000 mile item and that if I want them checked more often it'll cost me $15 a time.

Surely disk brakes are even easier to check than drum brakes. Why wouldn't that be a more frequently checked item?

Perce

Reply to
Percival P. Cassidy
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I'd tell them you want the old rotor (it's your right, you own it) and see if the story changes.

Personally, I would never turn a rotor, not when brand new they are under $60 (aftermarket).

Reply to
Mike Y

For my 99 Intrepid, I got both rear rotors ($26 each) and both sets of rear brake pads for $71 total, including tax, at NAPA.

Larry

: > Today they called to say that the left rear brake pads are worn to the : > point that there is metal-to-metal contact with wear greater than will : > permit skimming the rotor, so $290 for new rotor + pads + labor. : >

: > I asked how come it could have worn so much in 3000 miles and how come : > they didn't detect it 3000 miles ago and replace the pads, saving me the : > cost of a new rotor now. They said that checking the brakes is only a : > 15,000 mile item and that if I want them checked more often it'll cost : > me $15 a time. : >

: > Surely disk brakes are even easier to check than drum brakes. Why : > wouldn't that be a more frequently checked item? : >

: > Perce : : I'd tell them you want the old rotor (it's your right, you own it) and see : if : the story changes. : : Personally, I would never turn a rotor, not when brand new they are under : $60 (aftermarket). : :

Reply to
Larry

I guess I'd better stop letting my Chrysler dealer do my work.

Perce

Reply to
Percival P. Cassidy

Lots of things are easy to check but the dealership is a business and as a business they need to move cars through as fast as they can to turn a profit. They don't check all the bulbs either which is another thing that should be done on a regular basis. If the brakes are as worn as they are stating they should have been making noise for a while.

Not to bad mouth the dealers but to me it doesn't make sense to pay dealer prices to have "easy" repairs done. Find yourself a good independent shop to take care of you oil changes, brakes and that kind of stuff and save the hard stuff for the top dollar guys. Those rotors are pretty cheap in the aftermarket as are the pads but a dealer is only going to use factory (expensive as hell) parts.

Steve B.

Reply to
Steve B.

Reply to
Bill Putney

Not necessarily. Coincidentally, just a couple of weeks ago, I had to replace rear pads and one rear rotor on my Concorde (same car as 300M brake-wise) because I failed to notice the rear pads were low in time - my first time ever in 40 years of driving and DIY'ing of letting brakes on any of my cars go to the point of rotor damage. The pads were riveted type, and some rivet heads deeply gouged the rotor - no noticeable noise while that was going on.

Yep. You can get top-end, excellent quality complete rear pad set and one rotor for under $100 - in fact you'd have trouble spending over $90 for completer rear pads and one rotor. Labor? I can do both wheels in my driveway in 1 hour - tops - and I am in my mid 50's!

I agree. $290 for that!? I don't think so.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

Do they advertive an inspection with every oil change, if not why would you assume so.

Dealers are damed no mater what they do. People want the price of a quick lube (who will recomend and new air filter and try to sell you a coulant flush and tranny flush every 3000 miles) and the service of a best freind private mechinc.

It's your car unless you ask for something to be inspected you need to assume it hasn't been.

KS

Reply to
ks

Alot of dealers have a lube tech and all he does is oil changes. Doesn't check the vehicle over just gets them in and out. If the dealer offers a special on an oil change like having it done in a certain time or you get it free they may not check your vehicle out either. You would also be surprised of how many people come in and ask for and oil change and get mad that the technicians pulled wheels to check brakes. Do an oil change and give the customer an estimate of brakes and they said I never asked you to check my brakes.

Glenn

Reply to
maxpower

This is definitely the answer to the question that was asked by the OP. What he got was an oil change every 3000 miles, and now he's wishing he'd gotten a brake inspection every 3000 miles. That's not what he got. He didn't mention what "service" was, and so he forced us to assume. It's not a very good customer who obfuscates on the internet.

Let's just say he had his tires rotated instead. It's certainly true that brakes are very visible when your tires are rotated, and they ought to be looking at them. Once the tires off, it's right there. So if you were having the tires rotated every 5000 or so, I think you'd have a legitimate complaint, but that's all you'd have. It still wouldn't be their responsibility to catch that, unless they advertise it and you asked for it. Rather, it would have been a nice thing to do.

Reply to
Joe

Perce, I believe you need to look at the Maintenance Schedule in your car's owner's manual. It should have an interval for "Inspect Brakes" in it, I believe, which is NOT each 3000 miles. Be that as it may . . .

When you take your vehicle into almost ANY service facility, dealership or not, and ask for an oil and oil filter change, that's what you get and you get it in (sometimes) "30 minutes or less, or the next one's free". Some dealers also manage to get a quicky rinse off in their automatic car wash, too, in that same general time frame.

In the "old days" of serivce stations, you didn't even get a brake inspection with each oil change. While the car was up on the lift, it might be possible to look at the brake rotor surfaces to see if there any unusual wear showing up, but that's about all--plus, you can usually only see one side of the rotor anyway. With the wheel off, then you can see the entire outer rotor surface, but the inner surface is generally hidden by the splash shield. What you can see of it can still leave much unseen with respect to wear patterns.

Sometimes, you can see how much brake lining is left on the brake pads, but not knowing if the pads are "riveted" or "bonded", even that's a hit or miss situation without pulling the caliper off.

With all due respect, this situation proves that if a dealership "touches" the vehicle, they are magically supposed to see everything's condition via "magic vision" or similar. They are supposed to also know that something going to fail next week, too, although everything looks and sounds fine NOW. And, when that does not happen, the dealership gets bad-mouthed for not "knowing" something was as it turned out to be, later, in advance.

Now, depending upon how much is being paid for the oil and oil filter change, will depend upon how much time is spent on the vehicle by the technician--just as YOU would do if it was your job to do (at a fixed labor rate). In other words, as already mentioned, it's about getting the vehicles' processed and doing a quality job in a certain amount of time. There will be time to check the air filter element and see if there might be something else under the hood that might need attention (while they are draining the oil oil and putting the new oil in), but not much else. As modern vehicles now take less general maintenance prior to 100K miles, there is less to check for.

One foreign brand dealership in DFW is advertising an oil change and tire rotation in "an hour". If that includes resetting the tire pressure monitor, that would be about right. Whether they might check for nails in the tires might be open for discussion.

Also, a "brake inspection" would be a separate and different labor operation than "oil and oil filter change". Therefore, more cost involved.

Now, Perce, as you perceive you have been taking good care of your vehicle with the 3000 mile oil changes, have you ALSO been following the Chrysler Recommended Maintenance Schedule at the same time? Key point!

As for what's better, a dealership or a private garage or chain service store . . . that's debateable. At least at the dealership, there should be some guidance of what the particular vehicle's supposed to be "doing" (just as a prior service station mechanic, who was used to seeing YOUR car every so often and knew pretty much how YOU drove the car, might know when something needed fixing), but when you take a vehicle into a chain store (of any kind), you might see the same techs in the shop from time to time and you might not--and this can vary from store to store, too. And . . . an important thing to consider, they might put some incorrect fluid in the vehicle (highly important with respect to ATF with many newer vehicles, especially non-GM brands!) or put the right fluid in the wrong place.

These places might be more convenient and you might not have had any problems with them, but it can all depend upon many factors. And, they might have "better" hours than the dealerships, too, which can be a plus. Generally, as long as you're in their area of expertise, things can be ok and you can build a relationship with the people there, too.

Regardless of where you take your vehicle for service, it always helps to build a good working relationship with those there--whether it's a dealership or somewhere else. The prices at a dealership can be higher than at one of the other places, which can be a factor, too, but the old "You get what you pay for" can become very operative if the non-dealership entity does something wrong in what they did.

As for the brake job, you can request the dealership not use their OEM parts, or at least ask them to get you a quote with OEM and using a quality part from a local auto supply. Sometimes, the OEM is more expensive but NOT always.

Also, Perce, you did not mention what the labor charges were, just the total price. I suspect that when labor and shop supplies are deducted from the amount you mentioned, the parts prices might NOT be that different from the aftermarket.

Also, I need to mention that some brake repair chain stores will advertise a really inexpensive price for their brake service. But you also need to listen to their "fast taking disclaimer" at the end of the radio advertisement. A friend used to work at an auto supply near one of those places. He said the brake shop was always calling over and ordering parts and not asking about the prices as the customer was going to pay them anyway (he claimed) so it was more important to get the car repaired than what the customer was going to pay. So, read the fine print on those deals!

In the case of using non-OEM brake rotors, make sure that the ones you get have the SWIRL FINISH pattern on them. This "non-directional" finish is there to keep the metallic pads from trying to "phonograph needle" follow the cutter's grooves and cause chattering. If the rotors have just a satin finish, you'll need to carefully "bed" the pads in with several medium-decel stops (which will probably cause smells and early fade until the satin finish is more polished by the brake pads). I know, that's what happened to me one time when I bought non-OEM rotors. Later, I bought some more (really good price, too!) that had the swirl finish on them. NONE of the prior "break-in" problems.

As thin as the current production rotors generally are, not cutting them is a better long-term option.

And, of course, make sure the brake pads are at least OEM spec. The "cheap pads" are just that, but something like Carbon Metallic are generally a little more money, but worth it.

Just some things to consider . . .

C-BODY

Reply to
C-BODY

Over the last few years I've had my oil changed at both Speedy and the Chrysler dealer a few times each. Both say they do an overall inspection.

My EGR hose fell apart early this year. I'm very surprised no one noticed that, particularly since the car is 10+ yrs old. The moral of the story is you have to inspect things yourself, particularly on an older car.

Reply to
who

But I wasn't taking it in every 3000 miles for "an oil change." I was taking it in every 3000 miles for "the standard 3000 mile service," which I assumed -- wrongly, as it turns out -- included looking the car over to see what other preventive or remedial maintenance was required.

When they had it the other day, they pointed out that the air filter needed to be replaced. And, on a previous occasion, they pointed out that the transmission fluid cooler was leaking.

And if it's not possible to check the brakes without taking the wheels off, how come they found a crapped-out rotor and pads in the course of doing "just an oil-and-filter change"? How come they didn't find nearly crapped-out rotor and pads in the course of "just an oil-and-filter change" 3000 miles before?

Perce

Reply to
Percival P. Cassidy

You should be asking the dealership.

Reply to
aarcuda69062

This is the rub. Some dealers advertise an 'oil change' and try to be competitive with the local speedy shop. (My local guy usually lubes all chassis fittings, tops off all fluids for free, and I've caught him actually looking in the wheels to check pad thickness. Hey, it's good business, and he is possibly finding more work to do.) Dealers that want you in and out for cheap are one thing. Other dealers stand firm that they are 'dealer service' and are worth more than the local garage because they are 'factory' and are not only more experienced and have more training with your make of car, but also clearly imply they are doing more for your increased dollar amout than the local mechanic.

So how upset you are really depends on what kind of service the dealer presented as what he was providing.

Even still, it IS possible that the dealer DID check, and your brakes WERE acceptable at the last check.

Actually, I side with you, but to be fair, if the brakes weren't making any noise 3000 miles ago, and they weren't checking, then they might not have reason to look at them. Now, they may be making noise, so they looked. Especially if you are now to the point the rotors are gouged.

Reply to
Mike Y

Well put. The OP can't take responsibility for something as simple as his own brakes, but expects somebody else to see intio the future.

So the next fact that needs to be brought out is that "standard service" is an oil change. If somebody thinks there's something else included, let the burden of proof lie on them.

Reply to
Joe

Thanks for the kind words, Joe.

A few more "reality" issues --

You can look at the disc brake rotor outer wear surface for unusual wear patterns, but all you can usually see of the INNER surface is probably not much (due to splash shields and such).

You can look at the caliper with it still attached to the car, to look for remaining brake pad amounts, BUT unless you know if it's a riveted lining pad or a bonded lining pad, you still don't know how much is left. Both can look to have the same lining left on them, but you have to also realize that a riveted pad's last 25% or so of lining is not useable as the rivets which retain the lining to the pad stucture go through that last 25% of lining. THEREFORE, unless you remove the caliper from its mounting bracket, it's still pure speculation how much useable lining is left.

So, at this point, we've looked through the slots in the wheels and the possible open areas of the splash shield to see the wear surfaces of the rotor. This would be a simple "look see" situation, for which no real labor would be charged.

IF you also request a tire rotation, then that would result in the wheels being removed and reinstalled in a different mounting location. At this time, the calipers could be looked at--probably for no extra charge as the rotation labor would pay for getting the wheels off in the first place. Still, a "goodwill" inspection situation.

BUT if you request to have the calipers pulled off and the linings inspected, then that's an extra labor operation AND one that would be charged for--no matter what. If you decide to get the pads replaced at that time, then the "remove" labor would be considered part of the total brake pad replacement.

Just some additional clarifications.

Plus if you back out the sales tax, environmental fees, and LABOR from the amount quoted for the new rotor and brake job, parts prices might be more reasonable than they appear.

Unless something's written on the repair order, always presume it has not been done.

C-BODY

Reply to
C-BODY

Reply to
philthy

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