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Calling all critics

  1. If it is man-made it will break - period.

  1. Realize that cars, with 1000's of moving parts, will break down - regardless of manufacturer. Over the last 100 years, we have spoiled ourselves with technology. We've gotten used to the modern marvels of science and technology that we've taken it for granted. If your car breaks down, and it will, accept it. All those who bad mouth a manufacturer or vow never to buy brand X again are a bunch of cry babies. These are the same people who cry because the batteries on the remote control are dead and they have to get off the couch to change channels on the tv. Sure, I've had a break down or two over the last 20 years. No big deal. Shit happens.

  2. If you never want to fall victim to an automotive breakdown, take public transit. For those who haven't, be patient.

  1. If NASA, with all of the world's greatest engineers and billions of dollars build a vehicle which blows up on launch or breaks up on re-entry, you can at least expect your car to do the same or less.

Point: See #1

Reply to
phil
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Thank You Phil. I have been telling people that for years. A vehicle consists of 1000's of parts and if just 1 malfunctions (even a little screw loose)(the car-not me) can cause a vehicle to not start or run properly. We rant and rave about the piece of junk this and piece of junk that. Calm down and realize Point #1 Fix it or have it fixed and get on with your life. People complain that they would NEVER BUY another product made by that company because they are all junk. Get real and wake up. The time to complain is when you take it back to get it fixed and the company that made it, is uncoperative. THEN you have a reason to complain.

Reply to
Richard Benner Jr

Very good point. I hate people that take a sample of one, and from that bad mouth a whole brand.

Not true, public transportation breaks down, after all they use buses that are 15 years old and have pretty rough service. I know our city has had a couple of bus fires while in service, and several cases where the bus has to pull over due to low brake pressure. I've also been on a bus that broke down no less than 4 times on a 5 day trip. The last one forced us to be stuck at a dirty back woods garage for 3 hours.

Reply to
Bill 2

Hear hear!

DAS

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

I would have to agree. I just love it when people say they will never buy chrysler again, but I guess they do not look at the other newgroups. I browse the other two Americans(ford/gm) and they have just as much problems as chrysler does. Granted the problems may be different, but the quantitiy of them is still there.

Reply to
N.Cass

My Chrysler Jeep Grand Cherokee is a great vehicle and never lets me down.. but take a look at this..

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.. it israted among the worst..

Reply to
Mike

Very true on the public transportation. What I meant is not to fall victim to your own. Who cares if a public transport vehicle breaks. Just transfer to the next one coming along.

Reply to
phil

And 100 years ago there weren't any plastics anyway...

DAS

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

No, not at all. What I'm saying is the advantages of switching need to be compelling for the customer to be used as a guinea pig.

The advantages of driving a car vs walking are very compelling. Thus, the consumer certainly would have been willing to put up with all the troubles of the first generations of automobiles. The advantages of using a plastic intake manifold vs a metal one are not. Thus if the automaker is going to make a change to get some minor (to them) benefit, they better be prepared to make absolutely sure to do it right the first time.

Almost certainly if Ford had given a choice to all the new CV owners of whether they could buy a car with an aluminum intake manifold or one with a plastic manifold, the majority of purchasers would have not chosen the plastic manifold if they had been told this was the first year of manufacture.

But they usually aren't. You can dump an entire engine into a steel furnace without spending labor disassembling it, and melt it down. You mix it other metals, like aluminum, and you have to dump it into a steel shredder first to pull the ferrous metal out, while this is a bit more expensive, you still can get a pot of molten steel and a pot of molten aluminum without a lot of work.

You mix in plastic and now even shredding it, you cannot separate the plastic from the non-ferrous metal, so you end up tossing all that into a furnace, separating the metals out, and what is left over is burned up plastic. Or you pay a lot of labor to a person to unbolt the plastic. And of course since the plastics from different manufacturers are of different formulations, you have to take even more work sorting them.

No, plastic recycling in the auto industry is pretty horrible. Even steel recycling is getting bad since steel prices have fallen so much, it usually costs as much money to tow the wreck to the junkyard as the junkyard gets out of steel for it.

:-)

There's no plastic in my '68 Torino. :-)

Ted

Reply to
Ted Mittelstaedt

No need as they were crap to start with, no plastic needed to make them crap! :-)

Matt

Reply to
Matthew S. Whiting

Hey now, my first car was a '68 Ranchero (Torino from the doors forward)... uhhh... On second thought.... you're right :-)

Still, Ford remains my second choice when Chrysler gets 100% Daimlered to death.

Reply to
Steve

Really? For me, GM is clearly the second choice behind Chrysler. I'm still willing to give Bill Ford a few more years, but I'm completely unimpressed with Ford's current offerings ... other than the new GT40, but who can afford a 150K+ car..

Matt

Reply to
Matthew S. Whiting

I don't find most of Ford's line very exciting either- no way would I own a Taurus, Contour, or Focus. But Fords in general are, IMO, far better built than GM cars. If there were no Chrysler offerings at all and I couldn't buy a truck/SUV, I'd go get a Mercury Marauder in a heartbeat. Even a plain Crown Vic would sit better with me than a GM product. Same in trucks- if I couldn't buy a Ram, I'd buy an F-series. The GM C/K series and Suburban have been the top vehicles in Texas Lemon Law claims for YEARS now.

Reply to
Steve

Wow. I just do not understand how anyone could possibly think this. My

*EVERY* experience is exactly opposite.
Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

No offense, but I believe your information on quality is dated. For the last few years most of the GM brands have scored above Ford and Mercury on most quality charts, with Buick scoring above many imports and near the top overall, believe it or not.

Matt

Reply to
Matthew S. Whiting

Perhaps. GM cars I've owned have been maintenance hogs (and maintenance is difficult) compared to Fords I've had. GM cars I rent routinely still feel cheesy compared to Fords I rent. Granted, a Buick with a 3800 v6 is better than a Taurus, but the car that really should compete with the Taurus is more like an Impala or Grand Prix, and they're very much like a Taurus. You couldn't GIVE me a GM with a 3400 v6. Well, you could... but I'd immediately sell it and buy parts for my old Mopars with the money... ;-)

Reply to
Steve

Likewise. Last year my family and my inlaws vacationed for a week in FL. We got a Taurus rental car and they had a Kia car that was "upgraded" for free to a Sorento. The Taurus seats were terrible. We drove from Daytona area to Miami and then inland and back on day. Probably 7 hours in the saddle and my back was killing me. Haven't ridden in seats that uncomfortable in 20 years. The Kia was a much more comfortable vehicle. A gas hog, but at least comfortable to sit in.

In the last several years GM quality has far outpaced Ford and, sigh, Chrysler as well and is approaching that of the Japanese in some of their brands (Buick) and models (Malibu).

Matt

Reply to
Matthew S. Whiting

Call me equally baffled that anyone would have your experience. I've never been able to drive a GM and have it feel as good as a similar Ford. And of the ones I've owned, the Fords were the hands-down winners. Among the ones I've had experience with: the Mustang has twice the fit-and-finish quality that the CamaroBirds had (and remains in production where they don't), the Crown Vic/Maruauder/Town Car has better f&f than the Crappiece had (and remains in production where the Chevy doesn't), and GM trucks still dominate the top 2 slots in the Texas lemon law claims, year after year after year.

Now admittedly, I'm not a big fan of the Ford modular engine but most of the bugs are finally worked out and its now soldiering on pretty well. And I barely consider the Taurus in any measurement of Ford quality, because I've only driven the one Taurus wagon my company owns. But even it is holding up significantly its stable-mates- Chevrolet Celebrity wagons.

Reply to
Steve

GM makes more than Chevrolets.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

I guess you don't get the Ford Zetec engines in the US? Highly rated!

DAS

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

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