Just got off the phone with him. He said he was able to do that and was surprised that he didn't see anything when the vehicle would die. I asked him about the fuel pressure test and he said they inserted a fuel pressure meter in line (had a Schrader type valve fitting on it) and didn't see any drop of pressure when it died.
Yeah, possibly. They're not charging me anything and the guy requested that I call him and let him know what the dealership finds out.
There are ways to look at the adaptive fuel memories to see if the vehicle is running lean or rich at the time the vehicle was acting up, our scan tool will show what is called a secondary indicator meaning if it picks up a glitch in a sensor that is to fast to set a mature fault it will alert the technician what fault is trying to be set. we also use a tool called the Co-Pilot which will take a picture of everything the engine controller is doing so many seconds before and after the problem occurs. Maybe find a dealer that has a good diagnostician that will tell you what the problem is. Just curious what state are you in?
Glenn
Not in my area
Very interesting.
I'm in Minnesota and in my area the only dealer that can look at it before next Wednesday is Shakopee Dodge. (My area means within 15 miles of my house, or the approximate distance I can drive before the car warms up and starts dropping out.) Other dealers close by are Park Jeep/Chrysler (Burnsville), Walser Chrysler/Jeep (Hopkins), Bloomington Chrysler/Jeep, and Dodge of Burnsville.
You might give Quinn's Automotive on Chestnut Blvd. a try.
I've already got an appointment at Shakopee Dodge for next Tuesday morning, but I might call Quinn's anyway.
More info.
I drove the car home from the shop last night. As soon as I started it, the Service Engine Soon light was on. I got about 2/3 of the way home before the first stall out. This happened while stopped at a stop light while idling. Engine starts stumbling, tach is bouncing down, then back to idle, then down and it dies. Put it in park, turned key off, turn key on, cranked engine and continued on my way. About a mile later same thing happened--died while idling at a stop sign. Put it in park, restart car. The last time it died I was making a right turn (via a separate turn lane where I didn't need to come to a stop) when car simply quit. Put in neutral while rolling and restarted and continued home.
Once I got home I checked the error code. My old friend, error code 54.
Knowing it doesn't die when cold, I use the vehicle to bring my kids to school this morning. On the way home the Service Engine Soon light winks out. Error code 54 is still present.
por, I have a bad feeling you are chasing the same end of the tail, without listening for other ways to diagnose.
As I've said, it's going to the dealership on Tuesday. I just thought Maxpower and others would want an update as to what was going on.
Since your losing the tach signal it is related to the crank sensor/circuit. When you put the crank sensor in, did you make sure it was pushed in all the way? I don't have time to read all the replies but remember you mentioning something about the paper.
Glenn
I don't know if I'm losing the tach signal, I think it's just bouncing downward as engine RPM drops when it stumbles. I'm pretty sure I've got the crank sensor pushed in all the way. The engine starts and runs fine until it warms up. If the crank sensor wasn't installed properly wouldn't it run crappy from initial start up?
sensor/circuit.
I don't know if I'm losing the tach signal, I think it's just bouncing downward as engine RPM drops when it stumbles. I'm pretty sure I've got the crank sensor pushed in all the way. The engine starts and runs fine until it warms up. If the crank sensor wasn't installed properly wouldn't it run crappy from initial start up?
I have seen so many transmission jobs (recently done) come into the shop because of a problem such as yours. And most of the time the paper was still on the sensor. Just going from park to drive would sometimes cause the engine to shut down . And no it may not cause a problem at start up. If you aren't sure, before taking it to the shop again maybe remove the sensor and see if the paper is still on it.
Just a thought
Glenn
Will do. I've sure gotten good at removing the darn thing. The problem being if I remove it and the paper spacer is gone, then I've got to glue a new paper spacer on there and reinstall and hope I've got it in far enough. Even then, supposing I drive it until it warms up and it doesn't stumble, doesn't light up the Service Engine Soon light, how will I know I've fixed it once and for all? After all, I drove it around fully warmed up for about 45 miles the first time I replaced the cam sensor.
I guess I'd still want to keep my appointment at the dealership and have them check it out just to be sure.
(And aarcuda69062 will rip me for dinking around with the crank sensor again!)
I'll keep the group posted. I figure I might be helping someone else later on that might encounter the same problem. Intermittent failures are the worst.
And yes, I'm willing to pay to get it checked out. How long can it take? Not sure, but I think the going shop rate around here for dealerships is $130/hour. The shop I just took it to was charging $100/hour.
Cool, no offense intended.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result...
It should only take a competent technician with the correct equipment 5 minutes to verify cam sensor and crank sensor operation.
The paper spacer is there to insure that the sensor isn't installed to close to the shutter on the flywheel, such hat the flywheel damages it.
"Dinking around" never fixed a single vehicle.
And now you know why.
What are you talking about?
All the paper spacer is for is to make sure the installing tech does not push the sensor too close to the metal flywheel holes. It is completely unnecessary otherwise
When I replaced my crank sensor I put the sensor in with the paper spacer and bottomed it against the flywheel, per install instructions. I then fired the engine up and got a slight telltale tick-tick-tick. I then shut it down and loosened the sensor bolt and pulled the sensor out another millimeter, tightened everything down and fired it up, no more tick-tick-tick.
You need to understand how the sensor works. It's a Hall effect sensor. It is not supposed to touch anything. It can sense the variation in magnetic lines of force by the holes in the flexplate as they pass the sensor. The closer the sensor is to the flexplate the stronger the magnetic pulse is, and the easier for the sensor electronics to lock on to, but there is no exact distance away that it needs to be. As close as you can get it without touching is what you want. If the sensor is too close then when the engine heats up the flexplate expands enough for irregularities on the flexplate to start gouging into the end of the sensor, which is definitely a bad thing.
If the sensor manufacturers could trust the installing technicians to put in the sensor then pull it out 2-3 millimeters by feel, they would simply put that into the instructions and wouldn't even bother with the paper spacer.
These sensors do not have a fixed lifetime. It is quite possible to buy a brand new sensor and have it work a month then fail. And the crappy thing is that when they fail, they USUALLY fail intermittently. That is why the prudent thing is that if you get a single trouble code in the computer of either cam or crank sensor failure, then you immediately replace both sensors.
Ted
Which for these sensor failures is useless unless you put the scan tool in "recording" mode and have the customer drive the vehicle around normally with the scan tool attached, in recording mode, until the thing fails again.
An intermittent sensor, per Murphy's law, will NEVER display a failure indication in the shop.
Ted
MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.