I'm certain that the first time it was in there, they didn't drive it until it was fully warmed up. I've mentioned it so many times now that they better drive it until it is warmed up. It's 8 miles to the dealership from my garage. About the 6 mile mark it starts with the problem. It is reproducible. Every single time. If they say they can't get it to do it, I'll correct them in no uncertain terms.
Is that why you got fired from the dealer Dirty?
Finally heard from the dealership. They could only get the vehicle to exhibit the fault one time and apparently they didn't capture any codes. They put in a "dummy crank position sensor", one that always gives a signal and couldn't get the car to exhibit the fault. They said they let it idle for over an hour and then drove it for 15 minutes at various speeds, highway and city driving. Couldn't get the car to stumble or jerk.
They are replacing the original Chrysler crankshaft sensor and instructed me to return the new one to Autozone for a refund.
ok
Glenn, is there such a thing as a "dummy" crank sensor? Wouldn't it, in effect, be a fully functioning, i.e. new crank sensor?
Well time will tell the story. Good Luck. But what is a dummy crankshaft sensor?:grinyes: :lol: I have heard of bad ones and ones that are no good and some work part time and some quit when they get hot but never heard of a dummy one. MT
I have no idea what a dummy crank sensor is unless they mean a cheap bad one. I gave you all the help and advise I could give you. Since they wont connect the tool I suggested you are basically on your own. Maybe what you have is a bad crank sensor....me personally, I would stick with Mopar parts. Good luck and keep us posted. Happy New year.
Glenn
They said the dummy crank sensor is a regular crank sensor with an extra wire that hooks into the computer and tells it that crank sensor is always good. In other words, they eliminated the possibility of the crank sensor being bad and the problem went away. They wanted $150 to put in a new crank sensor. I declined, saying I would do it myself.
Per their original diagnosis, I had spent $470 to have an O2 sensor and a fuel filter installed. As you know, this didn't fix the problem. They told me that any further repairs would go against this amount. When I went to pick up the car they said that those repairs were necessary since they were generating fault codes. However, there would be no charge for the diagnostic work to determine the crank sensor was faulty. Of course I objected. According to my point of view I brought my car in with a stumbling, die-out problem, spent $470 on unneeded parts and left with a car with stumbling die-out problem. I got a little vocal with the guy but they insisted that the O2 sensor and fuel filter was a necessary repair and that they had spent about 2 hours working on finding the crank sensor problem. (Yeah, and more than an hour was with the dummy crank sensor hooked up to the computer and the car idling.)
They told me they installed the original Chrysler brand crank sensor and put the Wells brand from Autozone in the box. Wrong. They put the Wells brand back in the car and left the Chrysler one in the box. They told me to buy a Bosch brand crank sensor if I didn't want a Mopar one. Mopar = $79.00, Bosch = $35.00. I'm wondering if Bosch makes the Chrysler part.
The Service Engine light is on and the vehicle is generating a code 11 fault. Deja vu, people.
Well you at least found out what a dummy crank sensor is. I have never heard of one before. It sounds like a good old soap opera. I take it they were not a 5 star dealer. For info the only true way to test a crank sensor is with a lab scope. A code 11 does not tell you what sensor for sure is bad or if it is just bad wiring. If it is setting a code run it by auto zone or a parts place and get the 4 digit OBD11 code. They are right on on the wells sensors being crap. Bosh or Borg warner sensors may be one step better than wells but. Get a dealer oem sensor and be done with it. Let us know how it goes.
I missed the good part there. If they put the new cry sensor in the wells box and put the wells sensor on. Just put the cry sensor and drop the wells sensor in the trash can sensor. That is unless they put the dummy sensor in the box.:grinyes: :lol: :grinno: Good luck and let us know how it goes
This is not uncommon. I recall one time I had a Celebrity with a bad MAF and it was diagnosed as a bad distributor. A replacement MAF for that particular engine (a special one) was $150 from aftermarket rebuild and $300 from the dealer and I suspected it was the MAF and even told them that, but I wasn't going to risk the money on a guess, that is why I took it in rather than fixing it myself. When the repair guy claimed it was the distributor I thought it was bunk but I also thought that if they were wrong they would stand behind their work, and not charge me for the labor or parts. Stupid me, of course I got charged for a useless distributor that did nothing as well as the labor. That was the second to the last time I ever brought any vehicle I owned into a repair shop for a general repair. Today I do my own diagnosis even if it means buying a $1000 tool to do it.
It is par for the course for the shop to do what they can to minimize economic cost on a repair that is a repeat comeback. And intermittent problems have a much higher chance of repeat comebacks. The only protection for this is when you know you have an intermittent problem in a vehicle to be extremely careful in selection of repair shops. Personally visit the shop in advance and talk to the people and get a feel for the shop in how they are going to treat you. And, when you do drop the vehicle off, don't give them the keys until they have written the work order up to your satisfaction, and force them to write on the work order that the car is a known intermittent, and that they must call you if any parts are to be replaced that are not on the work order. Service writers have gotten smart and will usually write as little as possible on a work order, that way it gives them more leverage to weasel out of giving you credits or warranty coverage if things go bad later on. Another trick is to never talk to multiple people at the shop about your car, always insist on talking to the same person and write down everything they tell you.
Ted
Keep im mind one thing here, when you bring your vehicle into any shop and there are multiple problems or even fault code...they have to be dealt with!!! They may not have anything to do with your stalling problem but they still need to be addressed especially a battery/charging problem. The other thing is by you poking around unhooking things you may have set fault codes that don't pertain to the problem you are having.(which could cause problems for the tech and unnecessary cost) All this has to be cleared to see what new things pop up. It seems so easy for them (If they knew how) to connect the co-pilot and get a picture.
Glenn
how to get by a customer repairing his own car first check and record and erase any codes then disconnect battery for a couple of minutes touching cable to other cable to discharge capacitors and then redrive vehicle untill all readyness monitors are met then let vehicle sit a 10 minutes and then go for the test drive and real fault codes will reset 95 percent of the times the 0ther5% you give car bac and advise customer not to touch a thing when lite comes on then bring it bac customers do not have time to bring in cars for shit that isn't there and not really occuring
maxpower wrote:
OK, here's today's report.
I bought a Borg-Warner crank sensor, $45 at Bumper-to-Bumper. I brought back the Wells crank sensor to AutoZone for a refund. I DID notice that the Wells sensor only came with a 90 day warranty, whereas the Borg-Warner has a lifetime warranty. (It also has a NASCAR emblem on it, so it must be good )
I installed it last night, let the vehicle get fully warm and then drove it for about 5 miles at speeds of 40 mph or less. No stumbling, no stalling.
Took it out today and drove it 14 miles at speeds of 40 mph or less. This time I set the cruise control at 39 mph and carefully watched the tachometer. No incidences until I was slowing down (cruise disengaged, obviously) for a stop light at about the 12 mile mark. At almost the point of stopping, perhaps at 5-7 mph, there was a slight dip in engine rpm and then back to normal rpm. That's was all, but it gave me pause. I'm going to drive it on the highway next.
Yes. They tell the customer they put one on and the "dummy" believes it.
Glad to hear it is on he road to recovery. But the NASCAR emblem does not carry much weight.:grinyes: :lol: The BWD Borg-Warner is just one step better than a Wells. Drop back to your first post and read my reply back to it. THEN READ MY SIGNATURE . Good luck MT
No kidding. Lesson learned. Don't buy Wells brand electrical products.
Put about 10 more miles at highway speeds. No problems. Here's the acid test--the wife is taking the car downtown tonight, about 25 miles one way....
Since replacing the crank sensor on Friday night the car has been driven approximately 90 miles, both highway and city speeds. I figure it was fixed but today on the way to work my wife calls and says the car is jerking and bucking.
I'm taking all the good advice from everybody on this thread and here's what I'm going to do.
I'm calling the 5 star Chrysler/Jeep dealer in my area and ask them if they have Co-Pilot. I'll explain what has been done to the vehicle so far. If they have it, I will insist that they use Co-Pilot to diagnose my vehicle. I will volunteer to drive the car with Co-Pilot installed. Any other suggestions on how to work with the dealership?
I called the nearest 5 star dealership and asked for the next opening for an appointment with the factory certified gasoline engine performance specialist. They said he could look at the vehicle tomorrow. I gave the service writer the Reader's Digest version of my experiences with the vehicle, told him that I'm having knowledgable people tell me I need Co-Pilot and asked if they had Co-Pilot at their dealership and if they would use it to diagnose my vehicle's problem.
"We need to start from scratch with our own diagnostics. If Co-Pilot is called for, we will use it."
Arrgghhh!
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