Chinese rotors are junk

you're just gonna get me started.... worked with an engineer who flat out refused to do the paper work to approve a vendor (in china) that was ignoring patents. He was right to do so. Eventually they took out the patented features, which were needed so he still didn't to the paper work. I think the factory in china still used the parts anyway, but at least the legal liability was gone.

Reply to
Brent P
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Morale:

Let the worthless fail.

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander

It just doesn't work that way in typical dilbertish corporate america. The tasks got pawned off to us, if we hadn't redesigned things, the failure would have been on us. It's a truely no-win situation.

Reply to
Brent P

Ah. I see. I feel for you.

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander

Personally, I recommend avoiding any car parts made in China, or other similiar countries.

Reply to
Childfree Scott

Yeah, but your boss would have been in a lot worse hot water than you, regardless of how uncomfortable he made you guys. A few project failures like that in a row and he would have been replaced. Ultimately, while it may be uncomfortable for a while, it's always better in the long term to let the morons hang themselves. It also never hurts to learn to play the office politics, it's not that hard to do for a competent engineer, after all the incompetent ones have learned how to do it!

Ted

Reply to
Ted Mittelstaedt

I don't want to get into too far, but leting the project fail simply wasn't a option as there was no way the failure would stick to anyone but who had the hot patato in their hands at the time. It was the dynamic of the politics there. The guy wasn't a moron in other facets, he just couldn't design his way out of a wet paper bag. A-good-at-school engineer.

Reply to
Brent P

I think the situation is more complex than what it seems. These "junk parts" exist because there is a demand for them in the US. Big demand in fact. Just look at Walmart. Do you think people walk into a Walmart because they want to do Chinese workers a favour by buying Chinese products ? They want to do themselves a favour by buying cheap products because that is what the individuals want or can afford.

If American product is really better, they shouldn't be worrying. People who want better quality will pay for an American product.

No offence intended, just my 2 cents worth.

Reply to
Henry

Up to a point, you're absolutely right. But with the "global economy" it is becoming impossible in a lot of cases for the American worker to compete. In my business, the IT industry, the average programmer makes $60K/year. The average programmer from India makes $6400/year (source: ComputerWorld magazine

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some point a legitimate argument can be made that the American worker ishaving his livelihood stolen from him by being forced to compete with laborfrom a third-world nation. It's nothing new -- it happened to factory jobsa long time ago -- but when a college-educated experienced professionalcan't find work, especially after having been encouraged to go into thefield because the need for IT workers was going to be so strong -- there'ssomething wrong. There's a lot of good people in that situation(fortunately, not me...yet.)

--Geoff

Reply to
Geoff

I saw the same thing in Pakistan and India when I travelled there in 1975. Lots of educated folks with university degrees that were under employed there. I still remember the railway station ticket seller at Multan Cantonment, Pakistan who had a Graduate degree in Economics. In talking with him it was obvious that he knew a lot about economic theory. Unfortunately for him, his country could not use his skills.

Now what about stories in the USA about folks with Ph.Ds who drove taxi because it was easier than searching for work in their field. I personally know a Ph.D in Physics who has been teaching high school for about 20 years because he had a hell of a time finding a job in academia where he could use his physics doctorate. He said the last time he applied for an entry level job as a Prof. there were over 75 qualified applicants!

Yup, your last sentence is an understatement in today's economy!

Ken

Reply to
Ken Pisichko

Why chinese worry about liability? A responsiblity or obligation is not in the chinese dictionary. It's new word. I guess in this modern globalized day even in US it soon will be disappered from the company desk. A Bottom line is who gives a shit of liablity when everyone is look out for profit.

Reply to
Red Cloud

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Indian IT techies get a special visa from Bush adminstration to legally work in US. THey usually pay about one third of an average American worker.

Reply to
Red Cloud

It exists, but as in any business world, if the government isn't willing to enforce any rules, it's corporate anarchy - whatever you can get away with. Whomever you can bribe. Which mafia people you pay off.

Lying to some company that has no way to enforce anything and has cut costs to the point where they HAVE to go to China for parts - what can they do if they want to make their deadlines?

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander

The give-em-enough-rope-to-hang-themselves tactic only works if it's done repeatedly. If you can't do that, then your stuck, as you say. But if the bacon-saving is done judiciously, payback can be extracted.

Ted

Reply to
Ted Mittelstaedt

This is true and what is worse is there's a newer class of visa that is even easier to get that has exacerbated the problem. But taking them away can also be bad as this can stimulate the outsourcing even more, and make the jobs move overseas even faster. So either way you get screwed.

Ultimately though it does boil down to consumer choice. I think a big problem today is that the number of products out there has increased ten thousand fold over the last 200 years, the average consumer now cannot distinguish between quality and junk for most products. It was different 150 years ago when most of what most people purchased consisted of a rake, a hoe, a pitchfork, a horse, a cow, some chickens, salt, and a cat. Then it was easy to learn to see the difference, today its not so people get taken again and again.

Ted

Reply to
Ted Mittelstaedt

The US company I worked for, the end buyer could have had a serious problem legally when the product was eventually sold in the USA.

Reply to
Brent P

This indicates that Bush adminstration is not working American people and his adminstration is controlld by corporations. See Bush doesn't give shit about American workers whether they have job or not as long as it benefits for corporation then his missions accomplished. This means AMerican people those so called conservative are deceived by Bush's lying and deception. Bush does not work for American people! He is working for big coporation. He is the President for the corporation not for american working citizens.

Reply to
Red Cloud

There is no plan to make sure job stay in America. As said in business managment 101, only way to get boost the corporate profit is the slaming down the wage. Question: what's way to slam down American wage? NONE!!!!!!!!! Only way is to hire cheap chinese wage. There is no plan whatsoever in any business school to suggest maintaining the current wage of AMerican workers! AMerican worker's wage will go down which is the vision of this global world. See people don't understand that they wish that corporations would go all way to protect their wage. No way! Lee Iacocca will not do it in the future. He will move all the factory from AMerica to china if he wants it to, and the Geroge Bush will not stop it. Nobody in congress either.

Reply to
Red Cloud

This is the most rediculous amount of poppycock I've ever read.

For starters, why is it you are under the impression that American corporate execs WANT to send manufacturing overseas? None of them do, they are only doing it because they have no other choice.

If the United States banned ALL imports and required all domestic manufacturers to manufacture everyting here in the US, then prices on everything would shoot up to the roof, and consumers would greatly slow purchasing. Instead of every family being able to have 2 or 3 cars, they all would have 1 car. Instead of having 5-6 TV sets in the house, we would all have a single TV in the family room. etc. etc. etc.

Now, for the advocates of the simple life, this might possibly be a good thing. But if consumer acquisition dropped to this level you would lose all those jobs anyway.

The real problem is that advances in technology and robotics have simply decreased the labor hours needed to manufacture something, however the work week is still at the 40 hours a week it has always been. Thus if you have an economy totally based on manufacturing, to keep everyone employed you would have to reduce the amount of time they work.

The challenge is to find other kinds of jobs that people can do. The problem is that most of those jobs that pay as much as the manufacturing jobs require a lot more education. Since getting advanced degrees and such is a lot of work, people on average do not like to do this. Check out the numbers of high school graduates that do not go on to college. What are we supposed to give those people to do for the rest of their lives? They can't all be street sweepers.

Ted

Reply to
Ted Mittelstaedt

Unfortunately, this type of B.S. is being taught to MBAs lately - the whole system is imploding because academia is full of 1980's era teachers who couldn't cut it in the real world. All about the profits and what you can get out of the job at any cost.

Wages and employees should be the last thing you touch, but most people, even the owners, don't really care about the company's existing after they are gone.

That's not true for non-public companies. I read an interesting article a few months ago and the jist was that the kiss of death of any successful company is going public as that open you up to the cycle of profits per quarter and shareholders and most of all, a board of directors.

The article went on to show half a dozen examples of successful companies that are 100% U.S. labor and pull none of the typical corporate tricks because the people who own it don't have to be some CEO or investor's whipping boy. It also showed half a dozen that were like this and bought into the corporate system - all dead or dying. Downsizing, shrinking market, high employee turnover, the works.

Perhaps there is something to be said, though, for living within your means. Nobody really needs 5-6 TV sets in their house. It amazes me how many Americans buy things because they want them instead of need them. No wonder our economy is failing. Everybody is leveraging their credit as far as it will go and hoping to crawl out from under it. Someday.

Same differece, then. It's going to happen sooner or later. The problem is, though, that once the jobs and companies are offshore, they effectively cease to BE U.S. companies. If they were forced to stay here, they would at least be here. I'd take 200 U.S. jobs(was 1000) at a GM plant over

0 anyday.

It occurred to me that there should be some legislation saying that U.S. companies need at least 51% of their workforce to the in the U.S. in order to be considered a U.S. corporation.

They are learning that it's pointless when people in other countries take our jobs with a fraction of the qualifications. WE need a MBA - they need a B.A. over in India. Work for years at school only to find that every new job is being created overseas or under those visas.

$10K a year versus $50K a year? And you wonder why all those call centers are being created in India. Those Visas and their being allowed to move the workforce to other countries without massive tarrifs and penalties is the death of skilled U.S. labor. As long as their profit margins and earnings per quarter run their thinking, they will gladly do it until WE are the third world country that has nothing but corporate headquarters here.

When we allow companies to do this, we undercut the entire system. Why are students so lacking in motivation? Because they see a future where the U.S. turns into Israel. IE - PHDs sweeping streets because while everyone is highly educated, the jobs just aren't there.

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander

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